Can we please address OKW arty flares in new patch

Really? No one?

Alright, then I'll do it:
*clears throat*
Brits have almost exactly the same ability REEEEEE!


Having said that, I agree. All these abilities should go. No offmaps, all can be put on main line infantry similar to Panzerfusiliers.

The British Ability only works on Front Line Sectors. The OKW version is often used to look for the USF Major (it shows beacon through fog of war) and then surprise artillery out of nowhere on your ambulance or other points far behind enemy lines (artillery etc). Unless you happen to be looking at that part of the map there is no way to know if they used the flare or not which is why it should be removed and moved to Infantry (like how Snipers/Mortars from Soviets are able to throw flares).

Those reckon planes combined with off maps allow easy counter to static howitzer and OKW truck and in my opinion should not be available stock

That's valid, but what does it have to do with the flares?

That's valid, but what does it have to do with the flares?

Imo this thread is highlighting the problem of uncounterable vision and I think these reckon planes fall under the same category especially since they are stock. So I just asked other people opinion.

Imo this thread is highlighting the problem of uncounterable vision and I think these reckon planes fall under the same category especially since they are stock. So I just asked other people opinion.

Its completely different, especially in live. You have a quick pass that shows the enemy they are being reconed and you only kinda get to aim it and depending on where the target is the planes might get shot down before getting where they are wanted vs invisible, uncounterable recon exactly where you want it. The only thing they have in common is that they provide vision.

The British Ability only works on Front Line Sectors.

Uncounterable and lasting vision throughout the entire frontline is not to be taken lightly, especially as part of an artillery doctrine.




The two abilities go hand in hand.

Its completely different, especially in live. You have a quick pass that shows the enemy they are being reconed and you only kinda get to aim it and depending on where the target is the planes might get shot down before getting where they are wanted vs invisible, uncounterable recon exactly where you want it. The only thing they have in common is that they provide vision.

That "quick" pass allow to call in off map on any target behind enemy lines.

Since the can be called in from enemy base and since major get 2 planes at vet 1 the chances of these planes being shot down before revealing lets say a howizter or truck are slim to none.

The current patch make worse by allowing Major to call them from enemy base even at vet 0.

I suggest you try them in game and see you get the vision you need to call in arty or not.

i hope new patch address uncounterable flares.

make the area smaller and lower the linger duration. is the most simple fix

The British Ability only works on Front Line Sectors. The OKW version is often used to look for the USF Major (it shows beacon through fog of war) and then surprise artillery out of nowhere on your ambulance or other points far behind enemy lines (artillery etc). Unless you happen to be looking at that part of the map there is no way to know if they used the flare or not which is why it should be removed and moved to Infantry (like how Snipers/Mortars from Soviets are able to throw flares).

I know the differences. The issue is that both give you recon without counter play. OKW can chose the exact position, UKF cannot, but chances are basically 0 that you won't discover anything interesting and worth artying on none of the front line sectors. That's how both of them are used: Spot for arty. And the opponent has no other option than either to keep moving his stuff until the flare is gone or retreat out of sight.

But I agree: I think moving this ability as flares for main line infantry would be the best option. It is still very valuable, but allows counter play and the OKW/UKF player actually has to provide some real input.

That "quick" pass allow to call in off map on any target behind enemy lines.

Since the can be called in from enemy base and since major get 2 planes at vet 1 the chances of these planes being shot down before revealing lets say a howizter or truck are slim to none.

The current patch make worse by allowing Major to call them from enemy base even at vet 0.

I suggest you try them in game and see you get the vision you need to call in arty or not.

Specifically in team games, flares synergize well with abilities that require continuous line of sight like zeroing artillery, something recon passes do not. The fact that flares have no obvious audio or minimap indicators makes them far harder to react to then single pass recons, and there's also the fact that the recon runs take time to arrive, while flares are near instantaneous. This can mean the difference between getting your troops spread out in time or eating a light artillery barrage.

Specifically in team games, flares synergize well with abilities that require continuous line of sight like zeroing artillery, something recon passes do not. The fact that flares have no obvious audio or minimap indicators makes them far harder to react to then single pass recons, and there's also the fact that the recon runs take time to arrive, while flares are near instantaneous. This can mean the difference between getting your troops spread out in time or eating a light artillery barrage.

The problem is not reckon planes them selves but being stock.

I have already said that the CD of flares need a massive increase but using flares and off map not only requires a specific but also a second one for the off.

If in your opinion the problem is there is little warning from flares than simply add a warning.

The stock reckon planes multiply the effectiveness of most UKF/USF off map. One wants to use P47/Typhoon loiter ? add the reckon planes and you get both vision and more to divert AA fire.

My point is that reckon planes should not be available stock.

That "quick" pass allow to call in off map on any target behind enemy lines.

Since the can be called in from enemy base and since major get 2 planes at vet 1 the chances of these planes being shot down before revealing lets say a howizter or truck are slim to none.

The current patch make worse by allowing Major to call them from enemy base even at vet 0.

I suggest you try them in game and see you get the vision you need to call in arty or not.

In the patch it can be called in in different directions (I don't agree with this change however) but in live it's a dice roll if it's going to pass where you need it. I play team allies frequently and know from experience that it's not as reliable as you are making it out to be. Flares on the other hand cannot be more reliable and that is not hyperbole. They LITERALLY cannot get more reliable.

In the patch it can be called in in different directions (I don't agree with this change however) but in live it's a dice roll if it's going to pass where you need it. I play team allies frequently and know from experience that it's not as reliable as you are making it out to be. Flares on the other hand cannot be more reliable and that is not hyperbole. They LITERALLY cannot get more reliable.

Not really, both planes can be aimed already.

UKF planes can already be called from specific direction.

The first major planes will fly form base to direction it called in and the second (vet 1) from enemy base to point it called.

Not really, both planes can be aimed already.

UKF planes can already be called from specific direction.

The first major planes will fly form base to direction it called in and the second (vet 1) from enemy base to point it called.

major is more of a "kinda in this area" ability, as it seems to be relative to the major location. ive had many games where the major recon has missed. usually in the long maps where the bases are smooshed in a corner

id forgotten about ukf getting freecon ill admit but again, at least these abilities alert the enemy and require a unit to use and CAN be shot down. once more they are incomparable to off map flares.

The problem is not reckon planes them selves but being stock.

I have already said that the CD of flares need a massive increase but using flares and off map not only requires a specific but also a second one for the off.

If in your opinion the problem is there is little warning from flares than simply add a warning.

The stock reckon planes multiply the effectiveness of most UKF/USF off map. One wants to use P47/Typhoon loiter ? add the reckon planes and you get both vision and more to divert AA fire.

My point is that reckon planes should not be available stock.

The strength of flares is more specific to team games. Sure, the spec ops(or brit) flares are good in 1v1s, but its in team games that they shine and I was careful to specify that. The rest of the post is made with TEAMgames in mind.

Now, I wholeheartedly DISagree with your examples. Single pass recons are NOT good with loiters. Loiters require you to maintain line of sight for additional passes. Recon LOITERS are good with offensive loiters but not single passes.

They do mean that you will always have a recon for off map artillery without having to select a commander for it as USF or UKF. This is largely necessary since both UKF and USF each only have 1 commander with recon.

But in the case of Ostheer, 10 of the 21 commanders have recon either loiter or single pass, and the best team game commanders have them. Really you should never not have a recon option in your axis loadout and there isn't much opportunity cost since the best commanders have them.




Look, in the end USF, UKF and Ostheer all have ready access to aerial recon through various means and that's fine. OKW and soviets lag behind in this regard though soviets compensate with a wide selection of land based non doc recon options(mortar flares, T70, sniper flares etc). Only OKW is somewhat lacking and that could be solved by getting the infrared halftrack fixed up.

major is more of a "kinda in this area" ability, as it seems to be relative to the major location. ive had many games where the major recon has missed. usually in the long maps where the bases are smooshed in a corner

id forgotten about ukf getting freecon ill admit but again, at least these abilities alert the enemy and require a unit to use and CAN be shot down. once more they are incomparable to off map flares.

I do not think the first plane always seems to originate from base and fly to point the ability was used and the second one seems always to fly from the enemy base towards the same point.

Regardless it is becoming more player friendly in the patch the first planes can be aimed

The strength of flares is more specific to team games. Sure, the spec ops(or brit) flares are good in 1v1s, but its in team games that they shine and I was careful to specify that. The rest of the post is made with TEAMgames in mind.

Now, I wholeheartedly DISagree with your examples. Single pass recons are NOT good with loiters. Loiters require you to maintain line of sight for additional passes. Recon LOITERS are good with offensive loiters but not single passes.

Test in game, you might be surprised how helpful this planes are especially once major get vet1.

They do mean that you will always have a recon for off map artillery without having to select a commander for it as USF or UKF. This is largely necessary since both UKF and USF each only have 1 commander with recon.

Actually it is other way around USF had more reckon planes but they where removed because the major made them redundant. It time major reckon especially since most USF off map have been buffed and bring back doctrinal abilities like other factions

UKF have a number doctrinal abilities that come with some sort of reckon and I have no objection in adding loiter planes in some commanders.

But in the case of Ostheer, 10 of the 21 commanders have recon either loiter or single pass, and the best team game commanders have them. Really you should never not have a recon option in your axis loadout and there isn't much opportunity cost since the best commanders have them.

Look, in the end USF, UKF and Ostheer all have ready access to aerial recon through various means and that's fine. OKW and soviets lag behind in this regard though soviets compensate with a wide selection of land based non doc recon options(mortar flares, T70, sniper flares etc). Only OKW is somewhat lacking and that could be solved by getting the infrared halftrack fixed up.

This is not about reckon generally is about being able to use once off map in any desired location for a small mu cost without practically any counter.

Being able to call dirty cheap off map like "concentration barrage", precision bombing like TOT and Concentration Artillery operation or the all powerful Air supremacy operation almost anywhere on the map is simply silly.