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MG42 over performing
21 Nov 2020, 00:26 AM
#81
Posts: 888
Thank you.
21 Nov 2020, 14:38 PM
#82
Posts: 17
You guys are joking - MG42 is the lynchpin that enables the use of grenadiers; weakening it even further undermines Wehrmacht too much. Compared to maxims, which under most circumstances can simply replace line infantry, mg42 is a joke.
21 Nov 2020, 14:46 PM
#83
Posts: 783
You guys are joking - MG42 is the lynchpin that enables the use of grenadiers; weakening it even further undermines Wehrmacht too much. Compared to maxims, which under most circumstances can simply replace line infantry, mg42 is a joke.
I agree that MG42s are necessary for Wehrmacht to stay competitive. I disagree that maxims are anywhere close to a substitute for line infantry. They are barely a substitute for a machine gun.
21 Nov 2020, 17:30 PM
#84
Posts: 1289
You guys are joking - MG42 is the lynchpin that enables the use of grenadiers; weakening it even further undermines Wehrmacht too much. Compared to maxims, which under most circumstances can simply replace line infantry, mg42 is a joke.
You talk as if the mg42 is barely usable. What nerf did it get recently? None. And it shoudnt be nerfed at all. It preforms as it should in osts faction. Its cumbersome but its punch and supression more then make up that. And its in t0.
The maxim being able to replace mainline inf is just false. At one point it could. But not since its justified quad nerf a few years back.
It doesnt pack a punch, it isent noticably more mobile it needs vet and vet ability to do its primary job, wich is suprresion/controlling inf movement. Its fire sector is smaller and its not noticably more durable despite being six men. And its still is in t2 and costs the same as the mg42 and the m34 is cheaper, both of wich do the job of an mg a lot better.
The only thing that is needed is a tiny maxim buff. The mg42/43 are absolutly fine as they are.
22 Nov 2020, 14:52 PM
#85
Posts: 62
You guys are joking - MG42 is the lynchpin that enables the use of grenadiers; weakening it even further undermines Wehrmacht too much. Compared to maxims, which under most circumstances can simply replace line infantry, mg42 is a joke.
How? Wehrmacht has a lot of strong core units as is. The MG42 allows the ost player to lock down all the important regions of a map and maintain control, and there's little to counter that. It's kinda unfair
22 Nov 2020, 15:00 PM
#86
Posts: 1594
How? Wehrmacht has a lot of strong core units as is. The MG42 allows the ost player to lock down all the important regions of a map and maintain control, and there's little to counter that. It's kinda unfair
Any amount of smoke, or light vehicles, are enough to fight against MG42s early game. Every allied faction has access to one or both of these tools early on.
As are flanks, which can indeed be done against Ostheer MG42s, most 1v1 maps provide plenty of sight blockers and alternate routes to get around strong MG positions.
22 Nov 2020, 15:04 PM
#87
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Any amount of smoke, or light vehicles, are enough to fight against MG42s early game. Every allied faction has access to one or both of these tools early on.
As are flanks, which can indeed be done against Ostheer MG42s, most 1v1 maps provide plenty of sight blockers and alternate routes to get around strong MG positions.
Following that logic, you can always beat rifles by simply suppressing them or sitting in green cover before they do.
HMG42 doesn't have it bad in ANY way, unless user doesn't know any better.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
22 Nov 2020, 16:00 PM
#88
Posts: 1594
Following that logic, you can always beat rifles by simply suppressing them or sitting in green cover before they do.
HMG42 doesn't have it bad in ANY way, unless user doesn't know any better.
Suppressing them is indeed the way you're intended to fight Riflemen. Sitting in green cover before they do isn't though, I'm reasonably sure they win a 1v1 against grens (particularly early) even if they have to close in on grens sitting in green cover.
23 Nov 2020, 01:28 AM
#89
Posts: 888
Any amount of smoke, or light vehicles, are enough to fight against MG42s early game. Every allied faction has access to one or both of these tools early on.
As are flanks, which can indeed be done against Ostheer MG42s, most 1v1 maps provide plenty of sight blockers and alternate routes to get around strong MG positions.
This MG will instantly supress multiple units in just one burst and the recovery time is LOOOONG. When you smoke an MG your units will be pinned and by the time they recover the smoke will have cleared in time for them to get pinned again.
23 Nov 2020, 11:23 AM
#90
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
This MG will instantly supress multiple units in just one burst and the recovery time is LOOOONG. When you smoke an MG your units will be pinned and by the time they recover the smoke will have cleared in time for them to get pinned again.
You smoke before you move in, obviously.
23 Nov 2020, 11:30 AM
#91
Posts: 195
You smoke before you move in, obviously.
COH2 101.
MG42, like T70 and other key units feel dirty. Power should be distributed among units of a given timing. Right now, losing the MG42 to an easy flank or even being slightly too late to the right position results in a massive disadvantage because Grenadiers cannot keep up. The T70 for Soviets has a similar role: If it gets trapped into a Teller mine or a Panzerfasut + Pak40 combination attack, the Soviet side is in a difficult disadvantage.
This balance is massively better than COH2's past of gimmicks, but since we're getting another patch we might as well discuss what can be done even better.
23 Nov 2020, 19:49 PM
#92
Posts: 449
COH2 101.
MG42, like T70 and other key units feel dirty. Power should be distributed among units of a given timing. Right now, losing the MG42 to an easy flank or even being slightly too late to the right position results in a massive disadvantage because Grenadiers cannot keep up. The T70 for Soviets has a similar role: If it gets trapped into a Teller mine or a Panzerfasut + Pak40 combination attack, the Soviet side is in a difficult disadvantage.
This balance is massively better than COH2's past of gimmicks, but since we're getting another patch we might as well discuss what can be done even better.
Well, wouldn't softening the key units require a lot of changes across the board, which is too much for a single patch?
23 Nov 2020, 22:09 PM
#93
Posts: 62
You smoke before you move in, obviously.
Oversimplifications for the sake of being a passive aggressive shitbrick aside, it isn't that easy when there's always another MG42 around the corner beyond your units POV
Anyone can flank and outmaneuver an MG. It's when the MG is being spammed that makes the game frustrating and less punishing for the MG42 spammer early game.
23 Nov 2020, 22:26 PM
#94
Posts: 1594
Oversimplifications for the sake of being a passive aggressive shitbrick aside, it isn't that easy when there's always another MG42 around the corner beyond your units POV
Anyone can flank and outmaneuver an MG. It's when the MG is being spammed that makes the game frustrating and less punishing for the MG42 spammer early game.
If the OST player is "Spamming" MGs early on, he has very few actual troops available to cap points. MGs are not very mobile.
23 Nov 2020, 22:39 PM
#95
Posts: 783
Oversimplifications for the sake of being a passive aggressive shitbrick aside, it isn't that easy when there's always another MG42 around the corner beyond your units POV
Anyone can flank and outmaneuver an MG. It's when the MG is being spammed that makes the game frustrating and less punishing for the MG42 spammer early game.
Well the original post implied that the smoke is only going to come after the advancing unit has already been fired on by the MG. Thats pretty clearly a tactical blunder. I dont think pointing that out by making it clear that you are supposed to smoke FIRST is passive aggressive.
24 Nov 2020, 01:51 AM
#96
Posts: 449
Well the original post implied that the smoke is only going to come after the advancing unit has already been fired on by the MG. Thats pretty clearly a tactical blunder. I dont think pointing that out by making it clear that you are supposed to smoke FIRST is passive aggressive.
Also, you shouldn't really be advancing with a single squad. Even if the smoking squad is suppressed there should be a second squad available to go through the smoke.
24 Nov 2020, 03:36 AM
#97
Posts: 888
Also, you shouldn't really be advancing with a single squad. Even if the smoking squad is suppressed there should be a second squad available to go through the smoke.
So you're supposed to automatically have three units to micro manage in order to counter some guy's single unit that he got to buy T0 right off the bat. Let's see, you are USF, and in order to counter and clear out a single 260 MP unit you need two rifle sqauds for 280 MP each plus your 240 MP mortar to smoke it. Oh and you're supposed to hope and pray there isn't a second MG or supporting units around to brush off your attack.
The excuses people make for the most OP unit in the game are hilarious.
The fact of the matter is the damn thing is too cheap, comes too early, supresses too fast, has too wide a firing arc, too long a range and destroys light vehicles all too well and it's setup time isn't THAT slow, it doesn't have a death loop and if you ask me it's crew seem to be significantly more durable than that of other MGs.
24 Nov 2020, 03:56 AM
#98
Posts: 449
So you're supposed to automatically have three units to micro manage in order to counter some guy's single unit that he got to buy T0 right off the bat. Let's see, you are USF, and in order to counter and clear out a single 260 MP unit you need two rifle sqauds for 280 MP each plus your 240 MP mortar to smoke it. Oh and you're supposed to hope and pray there isn't a second MG or supporting units around to brush off your attack.
The excuses people make for the most OP unit in the game are hilarious.
The fact of the matter is the damn thing is too cheap, comes too early, supresses too fast, has too wide a firing arc, too long a range and destroys light vehicles all too well and it's setup time isn't THAT slow, it doesn't have a death loop and if you ask me it's crew seem to be significantly more durable than that of other MGs.
Ignoring the parts about balance, I meant using one Rear Echelon and one Rifleman squad, or one Rifleman and one Officer squad. Or one mortar and one Rifleman squad. Two units.
24 Nov 2020, 04:19 AM
#99
Posts: 888
Ignoring the parts about balance, I meant using one Rear Echelon and one Rifleman squad, or one Rifleman and one Officer squad. Or one mortar and one Rifleman squad. Two units.
You still don't catch a break with that because you have to side tech for smoke.
24 Nov 2020, 07:04 AM
#100
Posts: 783
You still don't catch a break with that because you have to side tech for smoke.
At least USF has plentiful smoke options, ostheer only has 1 non doctrinal and that smoke option is basically from a sidetech.
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