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Lack of friendly fire

5 Nov 2020, 18:04 PM
#1
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1

I've always asked myself, why CoH2 lacks friendly fire in compare to vCoH?

Many ppl speak about artylery spam in certain gamemodes, expecially rocket arty, while friendly is non existent.

I mean, you can start barraging enemy and just rush your inf into the barrage, taking 0 risks.

Really, I would like to know the reasoning behind it.
5 Nov 2020, 18:35 PM
#2
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

I would even like suppression to factor in friendly fire. I realize that would be a MASSIVE change, but I just think it's really dumb when you have your own infantry just marching through the stream of bullets your HMG is firing

I don't think they should take damage, but if they're close to the squad your MG is shooting at they should also be forced to the ground imo

Under those circumstances I think you could buff MGs significantly, and make them be feared the way MGs should. Cause now you would need to be much more tactical in your positioning of infantry around the MG
5 Nov 2020, 20:13 PM
#3
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

There is basically no reason, just not enough physical man power to correct all abilities of similar units to perform equally.

Consistency is not a CoH2 strength.
5 Nov 2020, 20:38 PM
#4
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

Also, there is the huge issue of a ton of players being toxic and resorting to teamkilling (or at least attempt to) for various reasons, with no real systems in place to handle them (except manual reports), which would become an even bigger issue if everything did full friendly fire damage.
5 Nov 2020, 20:54 PM
#5
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

Also, there is the huge issue of a ton of players being toxic and resorting to teamkilling (or at least attempt to) for various reasons, with no real systems in place to handle them (except manual reports), which would become an even bigger issue if everything did full friendly fire damage.


While full friendly fire is a no no, i think we had in the past abilities doing around 0% (probably fixed) and 2% while others do around 50%.

I think Shocks nade are doing full FF while most grenades should be doing 25%.

I think there's still difference in performance between certain stationary Howitzers and mobile ones. Or even B4, ST, Avre.

I think the worst are the doctrinal abilities.
5 Nov 2020, 21:11 PM
#6
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

Also, there is the huge issue of a ton of players being toxic and resorting to teamkilling (or at least attempt to) for various reasons, with no real systems in place to handle them (except manual reports), which would become an even bigger issue if everything did full friendly fire damage.

So if coh2 had a better reporting mechanism, would it be done? Ignoring the fact that it's this late in the games life

Cause there really needs to be a much easier reporting system anyway. This would be just another good reason *ahem* Relic
5 Nov 2020, 21:21 PM
#7
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1

Also, there is the huge issue of a ton of players being toxic and resorting to teamkilling (or at least attempt to) for various reasons, with no real systems in place to handle them (except manual reports), which would become an even bigger issue if everything did full friendly fire damage.


Honestly, this helps with nothing, if teammate is raging he is either:

1) Full retreat and afk on the base
2) Destoy your buildings and HQ on the base, since building do recieve frinedly fire

With or without friendly fire, griefer like this can and will ruin the game for their teammates. So lack of ff as a griefing preventing measure isnt really a thing.

If put it this was, the only thing that could have fixed griefering aside from active bans and reports, is an option to kick player from the match, other then that nothing preventing players from it.

Also I dont think that everything should do a full FF damage, rathen then arty units, even maybe excluding mortars.
6 Nov 2020, 14:36 PM
#8
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

Arty and grenades need much more friendly fire, that is correct. +1 for fixing dumb game mechanics you can run into your own arty support.

50% friendly fire on units would be ok. But structures should be more immune.
6 Nov 2020, 16:18 PM
#9
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2

While I agree that FF should be increased, it is great fun to run your Grenadiers up close into Conscripts and shoot a PWerfer at them. Most of the time the enemy does not retreat because first he has a favourable fight and second somehow people assume that no one would shoot their own squad.

Probably won't be fixed for CoH2 though.
CoH3 (should we ever see it) should allow different modifiers for your own units, Allied units and enemy units, plus one each for external and base buildings buildings, respectively.

But maybe a player reporting system like 90% of all games have in place would also go a long way to reduce team killing.
6 Nov 2020, 17:15 PM
#10
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

My favorite oops of removing friendly fire from coh2 is that a team mate can AT gun your base to death and it is literally impossible to stop then because bases don't count as far as being immune to friendly fire...
6 Nov 2020, 17:38 PM
#11
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

While I agree that FF should be increased, it is great fun to run your Grenadiers up close into Conscripts and shoot a PWerfer at them. Most of the time the enemy does not retreat because first he has a favourable fight and second somehow people assume that no one would shoot their own squad.

Probably won't be fixed for CoH2 though.
CoH3 (should we ever see it) should allow different modifiers for your own units, Allied units and enemy units, plus one each for external and base buildings buildings, respectively.

But maybe a player reporting system like 90% of all games have in place would also go a long way to reduce team killing.


I think, you mean Katjusha... not Panzerwefer. Panzerwerfer do suppression, that will be very stupid. xD

All over, friendly fire will be a massive nerf for all Allii fractions. For Brits it is normal meta to run into their own base-arty etc.


Last time I saw a toxic team-mate was 5 years ago... simply play with mates and not random...
6 Nov 2020, 17:51 PM
#12
avatar of TheGentlemenTroll

Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1

I think the Stuka at one point had some actually impactful FF. However I'm pretty sure it got nerfed to be in line with other artillery.
6 Nov 2020, 18:00 PM
#13
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2



I think, you mean Katjusha... not Panzerwefer. Panzerwerfer do suppression, that will be very stupid. xD

All over, friendly fire will be a massive nerf for all Allii fractions. For Brits it is normal meta to run into their own base-arty etc.


Last time I saw a toxic team-mate was 5 years ago... simply play with mates and not random...


Does not matter, worth the wipe.
PWerfer is good because if your opponent does not realize what is going on withing the first seconds, it's a guaranteed hit.
Grens are more likely to retreat with Conscripts up close anyway, plus Katy does not burst as much. Still works though. Point is that you take a bad fight on purpose to fool your opponent into not retreating
6 Nov 2020, 18:13 PM
#14
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

More or less, yes, more friendly fire would be fine.

But since Brits miles-bomb got min. range some patches ago, main reason for friendly fire was fixed for me. ^^ But, something like you mentioned shouldn't be meta as well.
Pip
6 Nov 2020, 23:27 PM
#15
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594



Does not matter, worth the wipe.
PWerfer is good because if your opponent does not realize what is going on withing the first seconds, it's a guaranteed hit.
Grens are more likely to retreat with Conscripts up close anyway, plus Katy does not burst as much. Still works though. Point is that you take a bad fight on purpose to fool your opponent into not retreating


The Katyusha is better for that sort of thing than the Pwerfer, honestly. The Katyusha (Especially close) has a far faster time-on-target for the initial burst of damage than the Werfer.
6 Nov 2020, 23:32 PM
#16
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Nov 2020, 23:27 PMPip


The Katyusha is better for that sort of thing than the Pwerfer, honestly. The Katyusha (Especially close) has a far faster time-on-target for the initial burst of damage than the Werfer.

In case of both, if you do not react the same half a second you hear it, you've lost whatever it was targeting.
In Katy case, it got bit less time, but area is much smaller if you're close enough, in pwerfer case, you can move a bit, you'll still be wiped, unless targetted thing was non weapon team that instantly retreated.
7 Nov 2020, 00:06 AM
#17
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392


In case of both, if you do not react the same half a second you hear it, you've lost whatever it was targeting.
In Katy case, it got bit less time, but area is much smaller if you're close enough, in pwerfer case, you can move a bit, you'll still be wiped, unless targetted thing was non weapon team that instantly retreated.


I think it isn't important which works better, but that this kind of weapons need more friendly fire.

Maybe not for mortars and grenades (because they would make too much passive friendly fire) but artillery should do enough damage to prevent players do such maneuvers. Often saw points defended while beeing under own artillery fire doing nearly no damage, preventing capturing.

25% - 50% damage sounds fine for me.
7 Nov 2020, 02:35 AM
#18
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1



I think it isn't important which works better, but that this kind of weapons need more friendly fire.

Maybe not for mortars and grenades (because they would make too much passive friendly fire) but artillery should do enough damage to prevent players do such maneuvers. Often saw points defended while beeing under own artillery fire doing nearly no damage, preventing capturing.

25% - 50% damage sounds fine for me.


Not nearly, but close to zero.

I also do feel that all rocket arty need to be a threat for friendly units. Its not normal, that you are littery bombaring your own units, with no damage and freely move into barrage area.

Howitzer I belive, dont do that huge of AOE damage, but at least they will kill friendly units on a direct hit.
7 Nov 2020, 03:29 AM
#19
avatar of C3 TOOTH

Posts: 176

I remember the first day playing Coh1. I was jaw drop seeing my ATgun behind shooting on my own Sherman.
And I actually enjoyed how details the game have compared to all other RTS
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