Conscript PPSH assault package

calculations are done assuming DPS at range 10

Volks MP40 and assault grenadiers
10.231 per model
51.155 per squad

cons PPSH
9.739 per model (ppsh)
2.603 per model (mosin)
37.026 per squad


DPS difference at range 10 = volks DPS is 38% higher than cons DPS

target size
volks 1 assgrens 0.95 conscripts 1.09

HP
volks 400 assgrens 400 conscripts 480

adjusted HP (based on target size)
volks 400 assgrens 421 conscripts 440

MTTK calculations

volk vs cons
8.60 seconds

assgren vs cons
8.60 seconds

cons vs volk
10.80 seconds

cons vs assgren
11.37 seconds


conclusion... cons PPSH is inferior to volks MP40 and assgrens....

and this isnt even factoring the fact that volks get a proper nade and a smoke nade with the mp40 and is cheaper than the PPSH upgrade

options and thoughts
1. cons ppsh gives 6 ppsh instead... upgrade switches out molotov for RGD-33 grenade... hit the dirt removed for being useless and redundant
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this change puts cons PPSH at the level of volks MP40... slightly better but slightly more expensive and with less utility... its fairly unimaginative of a change but it is straightforward and clean
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2. cons ppsh is made nondoc and gives 6 ppsh instead arriving at T3 without sidegrade (timing could be adjusted)... 7 man is instead made doctrinal
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this is my preferred solution as the red army historically is supposed to field alot of submachinegun weapons beyond anything else... by 1944 entire battalions would be given nothing but PPSHs... the "human wave" element of the red army is nothing more than a meme anyways and should be restricted to doctrinal flavor... timing of PPSH could use adjustment however
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conclusion... cons PPSH is inferior to volks MP40 and assgrens....
...

Now use you cheat mode and run test above 10 times to make sure your theory is correct, since there is a large number of things you have not taken into account.

The PPSh-41 conscript must not be doctrinal. Replace the 7th person with PPSh-41 with time correction.

I prefer the Jibber idea of the assault package giving a 20% veterancy gain.

Now use you cheat mode and run test above 10 times to make sure your theory is correct, since there is a large number of things you have not taken into account.

done... out of 10 trials cons PPSH won 3 out of 10... a 60 muni upgrade lost to a 45 muni upgrade that provides smoke and HE grenades on the side aswell...

PPSH cons were never ment to fight against MP40 volks or other CQC inf. They were ment to fight old PGs\LMG grens, considering cons are ment to be used at close to mid range, PPSH cons had their usage and was somewhat direct upgrade.

But after so many changes, additions and balance changes, PPSH package is simply outdated, just like many other things with EF armies.

....

Try running it with vet 3 cons vs vet 3 volks/assgrens. You may be surprised by the result-or maybe not.

PPSH cons were never ment to fight against MP40 volks or other CQC inf. They were ment to fight old PGs\LMG grens, considering cons are ment to be used at close to mid range, PPSH cons had their usage and was somewhat direct upgrade.

But after so many changes, additions and balance changes, PPSH package is simply outdated, just like many other things with EF armies.

the lmg arguably outclasses PPSH cons now... not only are they similarly priced post nerf (ppsh cons used to be 45 muni) but LMG cons still retain the combat advantage due to punishing long range DPS and synergy with the MG42...

Try running it with vet 3 cons vs vet 3 volks/assgrens. You may be surprised by the result-or maybe not.

That's not ppsh performance, that's cons having strong vet, it would make even single DP look good, but it wouldn't change the fact single DP is bad itself.

PPSH cons perform well at vet3, but then again, any weapon will, given con vet.

the lmg arguably outclasses PPSH cons now... not only are they similarly priced post nerf (ppsh cons used to be 45 muni) but LMG cons still retain the combat advantage due to punishing long range DPS and synergy with the MG42...

PPSH allow cons to stay rufly at the same powerlevel as they are in early game against grens, in other words grens would win at long range, cons would win at close range. Thats pretty much its whole point.

Aside from that PPSH package changes nothing in general. Point is being that with other options soviet player can have, even considering commander options, PPSH ones are just not preferable.

PPSH allow cons to stay rufly at the same powerlevel as they are in early game against grens, in other words grens would win at long range, cons would win at close range. Thats pretty much its whole point.

Aside from that PPSH package changes nothing in general. Point is being that with other options soviet player can have, even considering commander options, PPSH ones are just not preferable.

not exactly since cons will get slaughtered beyond range 10... this is in contrast to normal cons vs grens where they are fairly even till range 20... you basically pay the same amount of munitions as an LMG gren to buy a DOCTRINAL and INFERIOR upgrade...

Conscripts get much better veterancy:
1.1*1.4 = +54% more accuracy
0.92*0.707 = -35% RA

Versus Volksgrenadier veterancy:
+30% accuracy
0.9*0.86 = -23% RA

So both fully vetted, PPSH Conscripts will do well against MP40 Volksgrenadiers.

They should get a veterancy gain bonus so they can reach their full potential earlier, not a stat buff. They kinda suck early on, but once they're fully vetted they're efficient with good RA, dps retention, high model count and low reinforcement cost per model.

They should also have their cost brought in-line with similar CQC upgrades like MP40s for Volksgrenadiers and G43s for Grenadiers (latter is also in need of a small buff).

why should a unit`s usefulness be tied to veterancy? units need to be viable at vet 0 not at vet X..

I'll probably give them a grenade as powerful as the ones fusiliers carry when they upgrade. I mean its is a assault package after all.

The extra veterancy isnt a bad idea too.

That's not ppsh performance, that's cons having strong vet, it would make even single DP look good, but it wouldn't change the fact single DP is bad itself.

PPSH cons perform well at vet3, but then again, any weapon will, given con vet.

Its relevant since the x3 PPSH upgrade is for cons, not for combat engineers or peniles. Just as the x2 STG44 upgrade is for volks, not for JLI.

also it gave hit the dirt ability for close range weapons

also it gave hit the dirt ability for close range weapons

Forgot about hit the dirt.

Not really helpful to be honest (extremely limited), despite the benefit's the enemy would have time to drop a rock on their head by the time you can deactivated the ability (10 seconds) let alone lob a grenade.

P.s forgot you don't need the assault package for hit the dirt, 7 man would benefit far better.

also it gave hit the dirt ability for close range weapons

hit the dirt has no synergy with cons PPSH... using it means you are 100% likely to eat HE/incendiary/nuke nades with little chance of escaping... hit the dirt has alot more synergy with 7 man which is why i propose switching out cons ppsh with 7 man

hit the dirt has no synergy with cons PPSH... using it means you are 100% likely to eat HE/incendiary/nuke nades with little chance of escaping... hit the dirt has alot more synergy with 7 man which is why i propose switching out cons ppsh with 7 man

Hit the dirt and 7 man is just plain awesome. That said, hit the dirt does have grenade dodge utility-even for ppsh cons.

Hit the dirt and 7 man is just plain awesome. That said, hit the dirt does have grenade dodge utility-even for ppsh cons.

How.... ability that makes to immovable gives you nade dodge utility....?