So...my Tiger kept bouncing against a KV-1
3 Oct 2020, 22:06 PM
#61
Posts: 38
Against the Comet it also bounces twice in a row, I honestly decided to stop choosing the commanders who employ it. It takes a long time to arrive, it is very expensive, it is very slow, and let me tell you that against the infantry it is not exactly good, a blind man armed with a sling and a stone has more aim and kills faster than that thing. Two Panzer IVs are more useful.
3 Oct 2020, 22:33 PM
#62
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Against the Comet it also bounces twice in a row, I honestly decided to stop choosing the commanders who employ it. It takes a long time to arrive, it is very expensive, it is very slow, and let me tell you that against the infantry it is not exactly good, a blind man armed with a sling and a stone has more aim and kills faster than that thing. Two Panzer IVs are more useful.
As already established, Tigers penetration is not exactly exceptionally high, its rate of fire is, and comet has more armor then KV-1.
At least, with comet you now feel how it is to fight against panther with tanks(kind of).
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
3 Oct 2020, 23:27 PM
#63
Posts: 38
As already established, Tigers penetration is not exactly exceptionally high, its rate of fire is, and comet has more armor then KV-1.
At least, with comet you now feel how it is to fight against panther with tanks(kind of).
In fact I play more as an allied than Axis, I know well what it is to deal with a swarm of Panthers, and I also get a smile when I see an OST boy call a Tiger, because I know that guy wasted a lot of fuel and manpower.
4 Oct 2020, 03:37 AM
#64
Posts: 52
On urban maps where it's not sniped hard by allied TDs Tiger is very good. It has insane ROF and low scatter (scatter angle/distance max) and accuracy. Also it vets up fast because it hits a lot. Also if I am not mistaken, it's starting to come back to meta, at least the OKW version.
In fact I play more as an allied than Axis, I know well what it is to deal with a swarm of Panthers, and I also get a smile when I see an OST boy call a Tiger, because I know that guy wasted a lot of fuel and manpower.
Comet is a 5 shot medium-heavy which has a lot of armor to justify its low hp. Bouncing heavies (best chance for Comet: 69% from Tiger and KT at max range, 76% from Panther at max range) is an rng layer to make the unit effective for its cost and side tech.
4 Oct 2020, 13:09 PM
#65
Posts: 682
Better to tick urban maps as okw off, tiger isn't gonna save you
/s
4 Oct 2020, 13:20 PM
#66
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
In fact I play more as an allied than Axis, I know well what it is to deal with a swarm of Panthers, and I also get a smile when I see an OST boy call a Tiger, because I know that guy wasted a lot of fuel and manpower.
Yeah, heavies are now addition to an army, not an army in itself as they used to, somehow not all players got the memo and try to use it as a powerhouse that doesn't need to be supported.
Its a bigger P4, treat it as such.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
4 Oct 2020, 14:19 PM
#67
Posts: 1794
240/220/200 pen vs 270 armor. That's 89%/81%/74% chance to pen.
So must've been either a very bad RNG streak or observer bias.
Anyhow the KV-1 is meant to be tanky, it's pretty much its sole purpose.
The Tiger's DPM is one of the highest in the game, which easily compensates its somewhat lower penetration. Combined with great effective accuracy (due to low scatter), good mobility and the vet 2 range increase, it's easily Ostheer's best AT tool besides the Elefant. A vet 3 Tiger (range + ROF) can easily beat any other tank, and it's a lot more cost effective than the Panther because it also decimates infantry.
Tiger DPM is only good at vet3 no?
When Tiger calls in, Allies probably have vet2 60TD...
Panther is also bad, not just moving accruacy but slower turret turn-lock.
KV1 KV8 and ISU152 are tanky but Ost counter is not as effective as to Allies counter to Tigers. Despite the higher costs.
IIRC KV1 is rather cheap and can be multiple units....
4 Oct 2020, 14:28 PM
#68
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Tiger DPM is only good at vet3 no?
No, its godly at vet3.
Only pershing can shoot faster and pershing is much more vulnerable in comparison.
When Tiger calls in, Allies probably have vet2 60TD...
You might want to feed them less in the future then.
Plus, TDs do not get RoF buffs, but pen and are very much intended to counter heavy tanks.
Its like complaining that there are teller mines and PaKs on field when T-70 hits the field.
Panther is also bad, not just moving accruacy but slower turret turn-lock.
So, its like any other tank in game until it vets and gets rotation bonus?
KV1 KV8 and ISU152 are tanky but Ost counter is not as effective as to Allies counter to Tigers. Despite the higher costs.
Panther eats KV tanks, comparing ISU to Tiger is laughable at best and if you really want to bring super heavies into this, countering Ele or JT with TDs isn't exactly fun thing to do either.
IIRC KV1 is rather cheap and can be multiple units....
Yes. Does not change the fact its primarily anti infantry tank/damage sponge as its not going to do much itself with low pen gun, it needs to always sit on rear armor of opponent(hf with that unless its ullu reverse a-moving again) or needs to be backed at all times by a TD or ATG.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
4 Oct 2020, 14:30 PM
#69
Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2
Tiger DPM is only good at vet3 no?
When Tiger calls in, Allies probably have vet2 60TD...
Panther is also bad, not just moving accruacy but slower turret turn-lock.
KV1 KV8 and ISU152 are tanky but Ost counter is not as effective as to Allies counter to Tigers. Despite the higher costs.
IIRC KV1 is rather cheap and can be multiple units....
The Tiger has literally the best ROF of any tank in and below it's class. You have to go as far back as the Valentine and Sherman76 to level out or sligthly surpass it's ROF.
And Panther is a formidable counter to the KV8.
4 Oct 2020, 14:31 PM
#70
Posts: 1794
yes vet3, before that it is free xp for 60TD.
60TD dont need rof buffs because sight, range pen and damage buff are better. beside rof without moving accuracy is weaker already.
Panther does not eat KV tank sorry. If you read this topic.
60TD dont need rof buffs because sight, range pen and damage buff are better. beside rof without moving accuracy is weaker already.
Panther does not eat KV tank sorry. If you read this topic.
4 Oct 2020, 14:34 PM
#71
Posts: 1794
The Tiger has literally the best ROF of any tank in and below it's class. You have to go as far back as the Valentine and Sherman76 to level out or sligthly surpass it's ROF.
And Panther is a formidable counter to the KV8.
with the heavy delays and nerfed aoe, especially bad for Tiger. Vet3 is too long.
Panther can counter counter, but Sov play will have SU85 support.
I think thats the point of this topic. Axis tanks has worse counter to Allies heavies than the other way round.
4 Oct 2020, 14:34 PM
#72
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
No, its godly at vet3.
Only pershing can shoot faster and pershing is much more vulnerable in comparison.
You might want to feed them less in the future then.
Plus, TDs do not get RoF buffs, but pen and are very much intended to counter heavy tanks.
...
That is incorrect, the majority of TDs do get reload bonuses with veterancy increasing their ROF.
4 Oct 2020, 14:35 PM
#73
Posts: 1794
That is incorrect the majority of TDs reload bonuses with veterancy.
ouch! Thanks for misleading me Katitof!
4 Oct 2020, 14:51 PM
#74
Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2
with the heavy delays and nerfed aoe, especially bad for Tiger. Vet3 is too long.
Panther can counter counter, but Sov play will have SU85 support.
I think thats the point of this topic. Axis tanks has worse counter to Allies heavies than the other way round.
This thread does not have a point. It's a rant to let off steam and that is it. If at all it's making a vague point that the KV1 has too much armor (or the Tiger not enough pen). Of course SOV plays with SU85 support. Just like the Axis player can get a P4 to flank or a StuG/JP4 to support. Combined arms and positioning is the whole point of the game. It obviously depends on the game mode. Dense, laney maps favor the KV1-SU85 combo, just like and Elefant and Jagdtiger are almost unbeatable on them.
The ROF is incorrect as well. A vet0 Tiger still fires pretty much as fast as a vet3 Jackson iirc.
4 Oct 2020, 14:56 PM
#75
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
ouch! Thanks for misleading me Katitof!
You're more then enough mislead without my help tho.
with the heavy delays and nerfed aoe, especially bad for Tiger. Vet3 is too long.
All generalist heavies got EXACT SAME NERF here.
Panther can counter counter, but Sov play will have SU85 support.
COmb1NedD ArMs oP PlS NuRF!11!1one!
I think thats the point of this topic. Axis tanks has worse counter to Allies heavies than the other way round.
Allies also do not have Tiger/IS-2/Pershing in 5 different doctrines, nor do they have stock super heavy tank.
And if you have problems with allied TDs, then use AT infantry, ATGs or do what you constantly said when axis heavies were OP AF, just flank it lol.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
4 Oct 2020, 22:16 PM
#76
Posts: 1515
That is incorrect, the majority of TDs do get reload bonuses with veterancy increasing their ROF.
Not the majority. All of them.
Firefly, Stug, Jackson, JP4, SU85. All stock get at some point ROF increase by reload reduction.
Still, the point stands.
And this thread is becoming increasingly mindnumbing.
How much wood could a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
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https://coh2stats.com/players/76561198031032150
4 Oct 2020, 22:35 PM
#77
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Not the majority. All of them.
Firefly, Stug, Jackson, JP4, SU85. All stock get at some point ROF increase by reload reduction.
Still, the point stands.
And this thread is becoming increasingly mindnumbing.
The point that TDs do not get ROF buffs with veterancy does not stand.
I am not sure what point in your opinion still stands, I have simply pointed out something that clearly wrong.
5 Oct 2020, 09:35 AM
#79
Posts: 1794
One of the problems with the KV-1 (as many other units) is that it get the complete wrong vet bonuses:
Vet1
Unlocks the "Hull Down" ability.
Vet 2
+35% weapon rotation speed.
+30% reload speed.
Vet 3
+20% reload speed.
+20% rotation speed.
+20% maximum speed.
It durability should simply be move to its veterancy since vet bonuses should help the unit in its role.
a lot of allies units need to have their vet bonus tone down.
5 Oct 2020, 09:37 AM
#80
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
a lot of allies units need to have their vet bonus tone down.
I can't wait to see your reaction when you'll see axis vet bonuses then.
You will probably straight start advocating for removal of 3rd star and all its bonuses all together.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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