If you made the 76mm Sherman a stock USF unit?

A little background on this thought. I was thinking about the Mechanized Commander for USF and how that commander has more special units shoved into it than any other commander for any faction. Correct me if I'm wrong but I counted 5 doctine specific units; Cavalry Riflemen, M3 HT, WC51, Mortar HT, and 76mm Sherman. I don't think any other commander for any faction has that many.

The 76mm Sherman has been talked about a lot. I'm told it's a copy and paste of the Soviet M4C. The tank makes a lot of sense for the Soviets, I wonder if the Brits would have benefited more from it than the M10. I wondered if it should be in more USF doctines, like maybe Heavy Cavalry to bolster that commander's utility in light of the Pershing nerf.

Then I wondered "what if it were a stock unit". At first I thought maybe people would complain that would make USF OP but the more I thought about it the more I realized it probably wouldn't make a difference. I think it's actually a worse multi-role tank than the regular Sherman, and it's a far worse AT unit than the Jackson. Just adding it to be unlocked stock by the Major probability wouldn't even change anything with the faction.

What if you could unlock it from the Barracks after teching to both LT and CPT and unlocking their respective vehicle techs skipping Major but giving you an alternate tech path?

Just adding it to be unlocked stock by the Major probability wouldn't even change anything with the faction.

Then why do it in the first place?

Are you trying to trick the balance team into buffing USF?

Sure let’s allow USF to get a tank that beats a P4 for a total tech cost of 110 fuel

You on crack bro

You’re insane, the 76mm M4 is absolutely insane good.

No thank you.

Only if it replace Jackson and Jakson become doctrinal. But i think it will be bad choice for USF.

Well, no. It would bully tier 3 ost way too much.

I don't see how this would benefit USF at all considering you already have an incredibily potent TD in that tier. And for AI you have the regular sherman with HE shells.

I don't see how this would benefit USF at all considering you already have an incredibily potent TD in that tier. And for AI you have the regular sherman with HE shells.

If you are ahead of your opponent you can always just grab a regular sherman-
But if you and your opponent get your first mediums around the same time, the standard sherman will be at a disadvantage against both Panzer 4s, while the 76mm sherman will be at an advantage against ost Panzer4, and on par with OKW Panzer 4.

would love some more variation of the USF stock armour, know they didnt have alot of different tanks/td's.

how about an option like the UKF gets to choose between AEC and Bofors or hammer and anvil. M4E3 or M4-105, M4-76 or M4-E8.


shermans are a big part of ww2, shame they don't get the love they deserve IMHO. And meta is jacksons.

on a side note, what if the USF could get pershing the same way OKW gets their KT?

could make USF easier to play with a more durable tank?

Mech commander has lots of stuff but no Calliope for blob control means I can rarely risk picking it in team games.

M4C is a brilliant glass cannon but it's anti-infantry abilities aren't enough to warrant picking it over a Jackson or upgraded sherman with dozer blade.

What if you could unlock it from the Barracks after teching to both LT and CPT and unlocking their respective vehicle techs skipping Major but giving you an alternate tech path?

Then everyone would do that. Lnt + Cpt is faster than either to Major, so you'd be able to rush out the M4C very quickly. Then you'd just keep building M4Cs: they get to a Panther-killing critical mass pretty quickly.

What *is* worth considering is stripping the abilities Mechanized doesn't need *out* of Mechanized, and distributing them to other commanders that need some love.

Only if it replace Jackson and Jakson become doctrinal. But i think it will be bad choice for USF.

This logic is always amusing to me. "Can we buff [FACTION]?" "Only if we nerf [FACTION] into the ground as a trade-off". I think it would be neat to have the 76mm available to USF, personally I kind of think it always should have been. Maybe even determine if you get 75 or 76 based off whether you got Lt or Cpt, or just have the 76 be a more expensive tech.

But I am less concerned about USF than I am than about Soviets, whose best medium tank is the worst in the game by a considerable margine. The T-34-76 struggles to dent Panzer IV's and holds no candle to Panthers. Much like how USF are forced to rely on the Jackson, Soviets are forced to rely on the SU-85, lest they be chewed up and spit out by Panthers or Tigers.

This logic is always amusing to me. "Can we buff [FACTION]?" "Only if we nerf [FACTION] into the ground as a trade-off]. I think it would be neat to have the 76mm available to USF, personally I kind of think it always should have been. Maybe even determine if you get 75 or 76 based off whether you got Lt or Cpt, or just have the 76 be a more expensive tech.

But I am less concerned about USF than I am than about Soviets, whose best medium tank is the worst in the game by a considerable margine. The T-34-76 struggles to dent Panzer IV's and holds no candle to Panthers. Much like how USF are forced to rely on the Jackson, Soviets are forced to rely on the SU-85, lest they be chewed up and spit out by Panthers or Tigers.

Heavier armour is supposed to force a better AT. The problem Relic made was making the Panther so accessible. Back when it was only in ost t4 it was arguably restricted but once it became the main tank of okw and then later a 100mp roadblock for ost it destroyed any chance of medium v medium play. Allied players are GOING to get their heavy TD because the enemy MIGHT get a Panther and there is no reason not to as the td is just as effective vs any other target. The element of cat and mouse and escalation is removed from the game along with a number of units that will never have a place now as a result.

Heavier armour is supposed to force a better AT. The problem Relic made was making the Panther so accessible. Back when it was only in ost t4 it was arguably restricted but once it became the main tank of okw and then later a 100mp roadblock for ost it destroyed any chance of medium v medium play. Allied players are GOING to get their heavy TD because the enemy MIGHT get a Panther and there is no reason not to as the td is just as effective vs any other target. The element of cat and mouse and escalation is removed from the game along with a number of units that will never have a place now as a result.

Yeah I agree with this, making the Panther so accessible was a huge mistake. Despite the axis belief that the Panther is somehow underpowered, it ranks high in nearly every catagory: speed, armor, health, range, penetration. It is a force to be reckon with, unchallenged by any other stock tank, and even capable of defeating doctrinal tanks including the IS-2. If I were to wish for any unit to add to my army as any Allied faction, I would take the Panther every time.

It just feels egregious when Soviet's best tank is the T-34-76 and Axis best tank is the Panther. I feel like when I play Soviet, I have to work a hell of a lot harder to make my T-34 or SU-85 work effectively than when I am Axis and I can just throw the Panther at something and if it looks bad Blitz out. Try that with any Allied faction and you are at serious risk of losing your tank.

No. It would buff USF too much. It would be a big USF buff which it doesn't require ATM. Except for Pershing, the faction is quite balanced. It lacks stock anti-blobs but makes up for in weapon racks and Sherman HE mode. That's about it. Only buff it needs is probably on Pershing.

But I am less concerned about USF than I am than about Soviets, whose best medium tank is the worst in the game by a considerable margine.

The T-34/76 is the worst medium tank at fighting other tanks. It's one of the best against infantry.

I see no problem that USF gets M4 76 stock, its decent for its purpose, with AP for pz4's and weaker targets, and APCR for heavier targets, but slower ROF.
380 MP 125 fuel and 12 pop seems legit
gives USF players something more than just blobs + jacksons.

quite tired of the allied rush into TD-meta......

I see no problem that USF gets M4 76 stock, its decent for its purpose, with AP for pz4's and weaker targets, and APCR for heavier targets, but slower ROF.
380 MP 125 fuel and 12 pop seems legit
gives USF players something more than just blobs + jacksons.

quite tired of the allied rush into TD-meta......

I doubt that'd change.

Most meta strategies are that way because they don't require as much coordination or thought. Blobs will never die because they're easy to play. They're already suboptimal.

im allowed to hope, am i not? :-)

maybe restrict allied factions to 1 endgame TD 60 range each, that would be something to see :-)