State of OKW in the meta

Ullumullu is correct Katitof, OKW struggles vs UKF when it comes to timing of units on the field, and OKW early on sacrifices alot to counter mg's, UC's, IS's, and needs to divert large resources non-doc to combat those, and other things, while the UKF builds up forces/caches/techs up while the OKW goes for expensive solutions to counter what the UKF did 5 mins ago

So does USF struggle against OST MGs on most maps due to wide angle and pios sight in teamgames. Snipers also. USF does not usually struggle in 1v1s though. It's all a matter of perspective. You struggle in one point of the game and dominate more in another. If you really can't take advantage of cover/buildings early on, you can always use the kubel to cap behind the enemy lines and cut off sectors. IS has no snare. I mean, somebody will always struggle against somebody else. The only thing you need to do when playing vs UKF is be a bit smart, buy yourself some time. 1v1 is usually a good blitzkrieg mode when the enemy decides you're weak and pushes inland to your territory. Most 1v1 maps have killboxes to counter push and flanks to cap behind enemy lines and cut off. Use it.

I'd happily see volks get fausts sooner in exchange for flame nades being moved to sturms (and sturms getting smoke) but maybe getting the flame nade back at schwere. Okw needs more smoke than just the leig, needs snares and imo needs to not be able to win any Cover fight they chose from the first truck in a time when positioning is paramount. As a result as well tommies could be adjusted knowing they actually can use cover in the match up. Win win?

Protos Angelus.
Early game/first 5minutes non-doc

If OST digs down:
SOV: clown car, mortar,sniper, zis3 barrage. easy
UKF: UC,UC carrying IS's past MG, later Mortar,sniper. not so easy,needs time
USF: mortar, later smoke officers. not so easy, needs time

If UKF digs down:
OST:mortar,sniper. not so easy, needs time
OKW: nothing to see here, move along!

Protos Angelus.
Early game/first 5minutes non-doc

If OST digs down:
SOV: clown car, mortar,sniper, zis3 barrage. easy
UKF: UC,UC carrying IS's past MG, later Mortar,sniper. not so easy,needs time
USF: mortar, later smoke officers. not so easy, needs time

If UKF digs down:
OST:mortar,sniper. not so easy, needs time
OKW: nothing to see here, move along!

Sure, mortar can work but going US mortar is just straight up garbage. In teamgames at least, if you lose the engagement or forced to retreat, you help your teammates until you get pak howits or AA HT. Mortar is a big manpower sink and it's not guaranteed that it will manage to force retreat of the MG.
Soviets have no problem against digging down
UKF only has UC which can be risky if the MG is supported by one gren.

Countering UKF dig down on 2v2+ modes usually revolves around pios vision + sniper or mortar. OST mortar is pretty good vs UKF as they have no counter for mortar. Generally you don't bunker down vs OST, they have the best early mortar and grens have the long range rifle nade which in skilled hands can be disastrous.

As OKW you have no early game vs Vickers in building and if the UKF is going UC, you absolutely have to get the T0 raketen which can be great when AEC gets out (at which point you have fausts and maybe sturm shreck).

OKW does lack a bit early on. That's a no-brainer but overall they are a strong faction. I remember when OKW was released. It was all about "Don't let OKW go late game". That's why they are the only faction that has a super heavy tank stock and the only faction that has no caches and relies on scavenging.

OKW starts out strong with sturms. Advances with a bit weaker (and cheaper) volks (until STGs).
Upgrades into either heal or mech. Heal usually preferred because of the flak and leig and at that point your power just goes UP with elite infantry. Raketen preferred once the ally vehicles start rolling out.

And one more point since people complain that getting raketen, you lose a lot of AI power (same as how getting AEC you lose AI power but gain AT power since AEC is useless vs infantry) since OKW has no insta faust.
USF snare is locked to vet1 so nothing for kubel, which makes it great not only vs UKF but also USF early game to cut off snipe from a distance with one supporting infantry. USF also has no AT unless you tech to captain or weapon rack (slows down AA HT which is needed in most games if anything to kill planes later on).

Don't complain that OKW is weak or sth. It's a strong faction that has it's ups and downs as all factions do. And OKW has that God of all lockdowns called Schwerer which is great when bunkering down. Play allies and you'll see that there is no "OP faction" for any stage of game. Every faction is of the same strength when starting but those strengths are pooled into different categories.

Incredible.

Flamer M3 does not outrange MG.
Flame 251 does not outrange MG.
WASP does not ourtange MG.
Flamer 250 does not outrange MG.
Infiltration troops do not outrange MG.
Flanking with 2 squads at opposite edges of firing arc does not outrange MG.
Rifle nades(both ost ability and USF upgrade) do not outrange MG.

Sniper will counter garrisoned MG, but its not super effective counter with 50% hit chance.

Exclusively mortars/ISG will outrange MG.

Not worth mentioning anything else, because this is clearly about early game.

So, cut the bullshit.

getting your sniper to shoot at the garrisoned mg via A move secures a 100% hit chance

Sure, mortar can work but going US mortar is just straight up garbage. ...

If you think that USF mortar is "straight up garbage" I suggest you read this

https://www.coh2.org/topic/106172/indirect-fire-performance-a-comparison/page/1#post_id829910

I'd happily see volks get fausts sooner in exchange for flame nades being moved to sturms (and sturms getting smoke) but maybe getting the flame nade back at schwere. Okw needs more smoke than just the leig, needs snares and imo needs to not be able to win any Cover fight they chose from the first truck in a time when positioning is paramount. As a result as well tommies could be adjusted knowing they actually can use cover in the match up. Win win?

Sturms are already in retarded possition. They are expensive, they need to rep, they need to sweep, they need to give heals (if you didnt go for Battlegroup) and also you want to give them flamenades and smoke garrisons?

I agree thet nades can be locked behind set-up, while fausts gehind trucks. But thats it. Also in regards to cover deniel, its not like OKW dont need this munition, constant spam of flame nades, may win you some engagements, but will delay STGs badly, its a trade off.

In a perfect scenario I would rather see flamenades locked behind mech track and smoke nades locked behind Battlegroup or vise versa. If anything volks need more utility rather then any other unit, because aside from snare, their usage in general falls pretty badly when upgraded\elite inf hits the field and they are non vetted (you lost vetted squad for excample).

getting your sniper to shoot at the garrisoned mg via A move secures a 100% hit chance

That's only a problem with the UKF sniper.

Snipers had been standardised to all have 100% accuracy vs garrison.

rambling here, but how about early game for OKW to gets smoke nades that needs researching at t2, with shorter throwing range than its peers, needing 2 volks to chain smoke their way to walk up to/flank a mg?

Sturms are already in retarded possition. They are expensive, they need to rep, they need to sweep, they need to give heals (if you didnt go for Battlegroup) and also you want to give them flamenades and smoke garrisons?

I agree thet nades can be locked behind set-up, while fausts gehind trucks. But thats it. Also in regards to cover deniel, its not like OKW dont need this munition, constant spam of flame nades, may win you some engagements, but will delay STGs badly, its a trade off.

In a perfect scenario I would rather see flamenades locked behind mech track and smoke nades locked behind Battlegroup or vise versa. If anything volks need more utility rather then any other unit, because aside from snare, their usage in general falls pretty badly when upgraded\elite inf hits the field and they are non vetted (you lost vetted squad for excample).

The idea is that the flame nades are restricted earlier so that cheaper volks can't win cover fights against more expensive units. Late game when sturms need to repair and sweep volks will regain the capability. Early game when sturms are not needed they are the primary utility unit and volks are field control/holding units not semi elite assault units. Additionally the restricted flame nades would make stgs more accessible, but not compound into "I have my weapon upgrade so your only hope is using cover and focus fire but hahah if you stick I cover you will burn so better reduce that DPS while I mulch you"

Cover denial is extremely powerful, which is why the only other units that can do it are conscripts who have to pay for it and lack proper combat proficiency and stormtoopers/partisans whom both sit at 4 models and will melt if trying to prance up to an enemy position frontally and force them out.

But back to sturms and the OKW design philosophy. Volks are NOT supposed to be do it all units. Okw infantry game is supposed to be based around sturms early to get the initiative, then when trucks start rolling the game coasts a bit and relies on solidifying their gains, then obers and armour pull together the pressure late game. Volks are not supposed to be differently flavor led rifles thay carry the game from go to victory strike,×thats why there's not just 1 but 2 high impact infantry squads in the roster and more vehicles than any other faction.
The entire faction is supposed to be based on deciding how you need to use your limited high impact units (like sturms) and resources like fuel and munitions. over worked elites and picking and choosing what abilities and upgrades you need to prioritize is the idea, that's why you can get no pop trucks to pick up the slack for healing and repairs....

If i lose my starting sturms i am lacking repair tools till lategame. Once i got into a dire Situation where3 tanks were all heavily damaged but got back into safety it took literal minutes to either get the 4th truck up or save 300 mp not reinforcing the mainline.

Loosing them is a critical hit on OKW ecosystem. Imo volks should be more allround than Sturmpios are atm.

Brits got a totally unnessecary Medic squad. What about a totally unnessecary mechanics squad for okw? Rofl.

I'd allow sweepers with repair function to be purchased by volks (one model stops shooting). This would not buff volks combat performance but would buff the okw as a whole faction and would make them less vulnerable to losing the sturms. It would be enough to balance OKW against the allied factions.

I find that in most matchups as OKW is going to be obnxoious but your most favorable one is probably vs UKF since you have lategame advantage, just get 3 volks+2 jaegers and play for lategame p4+kt lol,

Voklks are dogshit and don't scale, Sturms are overexpensive and can't get enough value to be worth using 80% of the time, and your teching is actually torture.

If i lose my starting sturms i am lacking repair tools till lategame. Once i got into a dire Situation where3 tanks were all heavily damaged but got back into safety it took literal minutes to either get the 4th truck up or save 300 mp not reinforcing the mainline.

Loosing them is a critical hit on OKW ecosystem. Imo volks should be more allround than Sturmpios are atm.

Brits got a totally unnessecary Medic squad. What about a totally unnessecary mechanics squad for okw? Rofl.

Agree on this. You lose your starting Strum squad...not saying it's GG, but it's extremely tough and uphill from there.

Agree on this. You lose your starting Strum squad...not saying it's GG, but it's extremely tough and uphill from there.

That's why you are not supposed to lose them. It's part of the reason they have the best RA of any starting unit. Additionally if you do lose them their duties can be offset by trucks (medics and repairs) the entire theme of okw is few specialists that need to be taken care of. Losing these specialists is supposed to hurt.

They still are very squishy. I think it does not need much effort to delete them from the field. Way too vulnerable for a unit that you need to cqc and repairs at the same time.

OKW vs UKF is still Alt+F4 due to the weaknesses of volks as you mentioned, among other problems like being MG’d off the field. [...] common comps including triple vet III Penals will just outshoot your face off. [...] Don’t get me started on Triple double Bren IS.

+1

Okw needs more smoke than just the leig

+1

If anything volks need more utility rather then any other unit, because aside from snare, their usage in general falls pretty badly when upgraded\elite inf hits the field [...].

+1

The combat value of Volks starts out so-so and falls down from the midgame onwards, unlike other mainlines.
In addition, it is indeed very easy to just MG them off the field, as Lady Xenarra said.

IMO, unless Volks receive a combat boost (which I am not in favor of), they should be given more utility, specifically speaking: a smoke grenade

They still are very squishy. I think it does not need much effort to delete them from the field. Way too vulnerable for a unit that you need to cqc and repairs at the same time.

When its employed as CQC and when it have most impact, there is nothing on field that would even remotely threaten it.

In late game its usually busy repairing, planting mines or capping as its no longer needed on the front lines due to appearance of obers.

Volks should be given sweepers upgrade (not possible to holster) - this would balance it out. The sweepers would make them repair and spot for mines. Enough to balance back the whole faction imo.