Sander's personal balance changes

Here’s how I would approach commanders

Terror Tactics
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Soviet Combined arms
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Shock Army
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Soviet Reserve Army
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I love the fact that in Soviet schock motor heavy tactic, you added truck but haven't remove IL-2 bombing run and ISU-152.

Eighter commander should have such powerfull unit like ISU-152 should have in their load out ability that counter the counter to ISU-152. IL-2 should be removed to more balance soviets in teamgames (That should also include a elefant commander for ostheer).

+1000

It's not powercreep, it's just not good value and comes later compared to CQC options of similar strength of other factions.

PPsh conscripts dominated the meta after they where patched, that mean they have been power creeped. SVT currently is far superior the PPsh for instance.

An M3 at this timing would be useless. You can upgrade the M5 with the Quad so it can grind stuff at long range, you don't want to be doing drive-bys at 3 CP (the 7 to 8 minute mark).

Maybe if you reduced it to 2 CP and replaced the M5 with USF Mechanized's Assault M3, I don't see a need for it though.

That is the m3 I was talking about the one that can drop medic kits or it could even be a difrent type of M3A3 with different abilities.

While I agree IL-2 bombing strike should be replaced as well, vehicle detection is the most useless ability I can think of in the Soviet ability roster. If Vehicle Detection is kept, it should be an ability available to every infantry squad individually and only cost 15 munitions to activate like on PTRS Conscripts and AT-Rifle Sections (cost should be lowered on Schreck Storms as well).

All faction need weak abilities do combine with strong abilities and keep the average power of commander at about the same level.

Your suggestion about VD could work and I had suggested a similar thing.

Anyway, a supply truck really wouldn't be that strong outside of 1v1, because resources aren't shared. An exception maybe maps with a very safe fuel, which aren't common.

Allowing extra fuel for a commander with ISU/Elefant/JT is not a very good idea.

B-4 is AT themed, or it wouldn't do 640 damage (or 480 + stun as I suggested). I can find you plenty of compilations of B-4's killing vehicles.

If B-4 was only AT I would say yes. It also AI and anti structure so I say no. That is also way the AT bombing needs some tweaks.

Tank hunter commander is currently one of the most efficient commander in taking out OKW truck and B4 would only make it more efficient.

This sounds contradictory: reducing the number of common abilities, while increasing the number of rare abilities. You'd have to design a lot of new abilities if you want to accomplish that.

I tried to keep it reasonably simple with 1 ability swap max and creating new abilities only if the assets already exist (ZiS supply truck and smoke drop would be reasonably easy to add).

A unit as powerful as Shock troops could be the selling point of a commander but why get a commander that only has Shock troops when you can a commander with shock troops and IS-2/KV-2/ISU-152?

Those supper heavies (for all factions) should be combined with weaker abilities so that the total power of commander be balanced out.

My OKW commander proposals:

Luftwaffe Ground Forces:
Heavy fortification replaced by Ostwind

- Stuka Smoke Drop
- Falls
- Valiant Assault
- Ostwind
- Airborne Assault

Scavenge:
This is imo the worst designed OKW commander atm, the theme of the doctrine is just bad and not working. Here is my proposal to make the doctrine at least somehow interesting:
Thorough salvage replaced by Ambush camouflage

- Ambush camouflage
- Jaegers
- Infiltration tactics
- Ostwind
- 10,5cm off map

My first thought was replacing Rapid Conscription with the Commissar squad for both commanders, but I had some concerns that those commanders might overshadow NKVD then.

An ability that refunds lost models with manpower would be pretty good already though, considering both commanders have PPSH Conscripts, so I decided to keep Rapid Conscription on both.



I know, but I was literally out of ideas, other Guard doctrines already offer anything you would want to need.

Here's a wild idea though: how about a Red Banner T34/85 Command Tank as a replacement for IL-2 bombs for this commander instead? The tank happens to already be in the game files. Bonusses would have to be determined by the balance team as to keep things balanced.

I would put the commissar in Reserve Tactics (keeping the morale of the reserves up), and For Mother Russia in Conscript Support Doctrine (making cons truly the centerpiece of this doctrine).

As for Soviet Combined Arms i would rework it. Since it's theme is combined arms i will include mechanized infantry, tanks, air power, artillery, anti tank and anti air weaponry. I would rework it like this.

Combined Arms Tactics

M4C Sherman 0CP
It has nice anti-tank capabilities and it has vet that supports the combined arms idea. Also i would like to see it im more then 1 commander considering how much the soviets used them in real life and just to add more variety to the game.

Tank Hunter Ambush Tactics 2CP
Combined Arms in WW2 stresses the proper usage of anti tank weapons i feel that this would be nicely represented in this ability. Like you idea it would combine with Anti Tank Gun Camouflage.

M5 Halftrack Assault Group 3CP
Again mechanized infantry is a key player in WW2 combined arms warfare. After the fix where the Assault guards can be build normally from tier 3 this ability should cover both the infantry, mechanized infantry and anti air needs nicely

ML20 8CP
A howitzer is here for obvious reasons. Again i think howitzers should be tweaked.

IL2 Strumovik Strafe 10CP
Yes you heard me right, the Advanced Warfare one. I think that after the fix a cheap plane ability would be perfect for this commander. IL Bombing runs can also be a bit much combined with the howitzer.

PPsh conscripts dominated the meta after they where patched, that mean they have been power creeped. SVT currently is far superior the PPsh for instance.

uhh yes and no... 3x ppsh is pretty terrible as an upgrade in contrast to what all the other factions get on the get go... PPSH conscripts were meta but only against ostheer where the PPSH excels due to oorah + ppsh + hit the dirt + ostheers lack of short ranged firepower besides the panzergrenadier allowed them to circumvent the normally superior LMG42... against OKW PPSH conscripts were and still are completely useless... soo really PPSH conscripts were never really that good to begin with

uhh yes and no... 3x ppsh is pretty terrible as an upgrade in contrast to what all the other factions get on the get go... PPSH conscripts were meta but only against ostheer where the PPSH excels due to oorah + ppsh + hit the dirt + ostheers lack of short ranged firepower besides the panzergrenadier allowed them to circumvent the normally superior LMG42... against OKW PPSH conscripts were and still are completely useless... soo really PPSH conscripts were never really that good to begin with

They where and they used allot. They have simply been powered creeped by SVT/7 men. If played the game at the time they patched you would had noticed. I suggest we try to keep general balance out of this thread and if in your opinion ppsh are UP start separate thread about it.

They where and they used allot. They have simply been powered creeped by SVT/7 men. If played the game at the time they patched you would had noticed.

the point of the earlier statement was that the cons PPSH upgrade is underpowered compared to almost every other weapon upgrade ingame... SVT and 7 man outclass the PPSH because the upgrade is simply terrible

the point of the earlier statement was that the cons PPSH upgrade is underpowered compared to almost every other weapon upgrade ingame... SVT and 7 man outclass the PPSH because the upgrade is simply terrible

No.

Again if in your opinion PPsh upgrade is terrible I suggest you run some test vs MP VG and Assault grenadiers and then start a thread about it containing the results.

No.

Again if in your opinion PPsh upgrade is terrible I suggest you run some test vs MP VG and Assault grenadiers and then start a thread about it containing the results.

From an value perspective they are terrible compared to SVT and 7th man.

No.

Again if in your opinion PPsh upgrade is terrible I suggest you run some test vs MP VG and Assault grenadiers and then start a thread about it containing the results.

DPS at range 10

Volks MP40 and assault grenadiers
10.231 per model
51.155 per squad

cons PPSH
9.739 per model (ppsh)
2.603 per model (mosin)
37.026 per squad


DPS difference at range 10 = volks DPS is 38% higher than cons DPS

target size
volks 1 assgrens 0.95 conscripts 1.09

HP
volks 400 assgrens 400 conscripts 480

adjusted HP (based on target size)
volks 400 assgrens 421 conscripts 440

MTTK calculations

volk vs cons
8.60 seconds

assgren vs cons
8.60 seconds

cons vs volk
10.80 seconds

cons vs assgren
11.37 seconds


conclusion... cons PPSH is inferior to volks MP40 and assgrens

And I suggest you run some actual games and for once, check how your test tube vacuum theories perform in actual game.

It might be a fatal blow to your perception of the game, but in actual games you do not play on massive, flat, neutral cover map where random units have 1v1 with each other.

This isn't TABS, which for some reason you have massive problems understanding, but keep producing these bs TABS scenarios constantly that have nothing to do with how unit performs in game, how units are used and against what.

even under test tube calculations/in a vacuum cons PPSH are objectively inferior

MTTK calculations

volk vs cons
8.60 seconds

assgren vs cons
8.60 seconds

cons vs volk
10.80 seconds

cons vs assgren
11.37 seconds


conclusion... cons PPSH is inferior to volks MP40 and assgrens

You should test this ingame. I'd imagine the actual TTK is different because of PPSH DPS concentration on the last 3 models while MP40 Volks/Grens lose 20% DPS per model killed, and because their 3x Mosins will deal more damage than MP40s while closing in.

Cons also get slightly better accuracy and RA buffs from veterancy.

You should test this ingame. I'd imagine the actual TTK is different because of PPSH DPS concentration on the last 3 models while MP40 Volks/Grens lose 20% DPS per model killed, and because their 3x Mosins will deal more damage than MP40s while closing in.

Cons also get slightly better accuracy and RA buffs from veterancy.

conscripts + ppsh seem to beat volksgrenadiers 3 out of 10 times in my trial at range 10... both units were just spawned in at range 10 however and nothing else was involved...

in any case i find it unfair that a unit with a 60 muni pricetag has inferior performance to an upgrade with a 45muni pricetag despite the 45 muni upgrade also having additional HE and smoke grenades...

TLDR; cons ppsh need help

Let's be honest, most of these proposed suggestions are far too much for a simple balance patch even if we get one. I highly doubt there'll be another commander revamp in the future.

Let's be honest, most of these proposed suggestions are far too much for a simple balance patch even if we get one. I highly doubt there'll be another commander revamp in the future.

I think youre right but redesigning commanders is fun

I like Stormjager's Combined Arms, although I think the Command T-34-85 could maybe be a 75mm Sherman which gives other tanks the unique Radio Net ability.

My personal take on Lend Lease doc:

2CP: Conscript PPSh, in case you need ghetto Assault Guards. Has synergy with Repair Kit too.
3CP: Universal Carrier, comes with Assault Guards at a cheaper cost than the OG M5 bundle. The UC can upgrade for a pintle DShK which gives it similar functionality to one with a Vickers K, but with better DPS/pen (this is entirely possible via the same trick used to give the 250 HT a pintle gun).

Conscript Repair Kit - Ditto.
Fuel Drop - Ditto.
Emcha (Sherman) - Ditto.

EDIT: Of course, to keep Adv Warfare relevant, a replacement of the IL-2 with the Rocket Run would suit IMO. That would also make it less of a worse version of Armored Assault.

Another edit: Honestly, I think Airborne Guards should get stealth with their PPSh upgrade, and it would have been cool to see camo for AT guns or vehicles, but I don't know what to really get rid of. Maybe the Rally Point can be bundled into the build menu for Airborne Guards?

Oh yes, forgot . . .

- Can the USF mortar smoke be made to arrive quicker

OR

- Make all the smoke rifle grenades unlocked as standard.

Even as USF I struggle to deal with MG42s early game in 2v2 and up. The mortar smoke is just so slow . . .