Sander's personal balance changes

Some of them are good (CP4, okw BGHQ), but some are absolutely criminal (222 gets neutered, can’t protect from countersnipe anymore which tilts sniper wars vs ukf in their favour, ost recrewing with 2 models (?????), 3 G43 Grens is too good, OKW schwerer stays same but gets doctrinal Ostwind 30 fuel earlier so locking both cutoff and fuel is even safer, flak HT and command Panther overbuffed.)

Incredibly mind blowing Ost and OKW buffs. This needs to be scaled back a lot.

You don't even get the "cut-off protection" if you rush Ostwind or Flame Hetzer. In fact you delay it by a lot.

If you rush Ostwind or Flame Hetzer you won't have the gun activated and your T4 is super vulnerable to anything.

This would direct weaken Tommies and Tommies ability to assault positions and counter blobs (nade spam has worked for me). This would really hammer the infantry balance. Would some other QoL changes for UKF be in order? Buff the MG, make the Bren gun usable while walking, or (heresy i know) give sections a snare. Or, maybe a big ask, make the sections 7 pop instead of 8 as they lose "elite infantry" status.

Yes it would weaken Tommies. Tommies are too good as they are at the moment, which is why they should get some nerfs.

I've thought about giving the Stug III ausf.G at least a veterancy accuracy bonus, as it is the only TD that doesn't get one. However I am a bit reluctant to further buff the StuG because it's already a very cost effective unit and further improvements might push it over the edge and make it too spammable again (which was a problem in teamgames before the reload nerf).



I thought the upgrade took 1 weapon slot. I've updated the change to make it require 1 weapon slot.

An accuracy bonus would be a good change, as would be a rework of TWP towards an ability that helps stug defend itself (akin to Stuart stun shot) or annoy heavies. Maybe we could go the Pgren route, splitting veterancy 3 into 1 and 2, and giving accuracy bonus at vet 3.

Yes it would weaken Tommies. Tommies are too good as they are at the moment, which is why they should get some nerfs.

..from what I read their cost gets slightly increased after their are repurchased when bolstered (together with increased 5 men sappers). Maybe not enough but a good start.

disappointed
nothing about tommy buff

If anyone disagrees with something, then that's completely find and feel free to post arguments why and what you'd do instead, to change my mind or to help along the discussion. If you can't be bothered doing that then also please don't bother posting at all and don't pollute/hijack this thread with troll posts. I hope the moderators will kindly see to enforcing this.

This childish attitude is why members of the balance team do not like to engage in public discussions.

I can mostly speak for Ostheer and 1v1, but here are my takes. I have not played much in the latest patch, but I was about rank 200 Ostheer.

Nerfing 5 man grens without buffing Grens leaves Ostheer meta only Osttruppen and AssGrens. Some of the 5 man upgrade power could be moved to baseline grens, and nerf the upgrade a bit.

Tellar mines compensate for lack of powerful light vehicle, and are fine as is. They also cost 50 muni currently, not 60 as in the OP.

Recrewing with 2 man is just as much a nerf as it is a buff. Sometimes you want to man a weapon under fire, and having only 2 men in the crew means that they die pretty fast. Also means that recrewed at guns must go be reinforced. 3 men guns could still be used on the field.

222 speed boost costs 30 muni, while WC51 has pretty much same ability for free.


20% dmg reduction command tank makes pumas survive 4 shots. This could make Mobile Defence meta comeback, if the Pumas are good enough to offset stock Grens. Especially in the current medium meta the Puma could be strong.

I like your ideas allot. Here's my view on some of the Ostheer proposals, which is my main faction:

Panzerschreck (all factions, experimental change)
In order to make Panzerschrecks a more viable option against light vehicles, its far accuracy is being increased. As compensation, its damage is being reduced. This will make the alpha strike potential against vehicles slightly worse (decreasing the effectiveness of “Schreck blobs”), while the higher accuracy should keep the total damage per minute roughly similar.

• Damage from 120 to 100
  
• Accuracy from 0.069/0.052/0.028 to 0.069/0.052/0.036 (for example chance to hit a T-70 at long range goes from 50% to 65%)
  

Instead of a slight accuracy bonus at long range, I'd reduce the reload time of Schrecks by ~20%. All 3 Schreck units get substantial accuracy bonusses with veterancy anyway (+40%), so reduced damage would just make them scale much worse against anything bigger than a T70. An increased chance of a second volley would be much more valuable.

I'm speaking from the perspective of 1v1 where Schrecks are barely used (too ineffective against lights, too squishy during late game). If reduced reload time would make Schrecks too blobbable in team games, I'd at least give the reduced damage back at vet 3 for squads that can upgrade them.

Headquarters
By giving Ostheer an option to deploy medics at their base for a fuel cost, it should give players a choice to use fuel rather than munitions to get their medics. This should help Ostheer with their early munitions economy, by making weapons upgrades and Teller Mines available faster, should the player choose so.

• Now has a medic upgrade available for 150mp/10fu. Spawns 3 automatron medics
  

I feel this would make it a no-brainer over the med bunker. 10 fuel isn't much of an issue with cheap T2 vehicles and relatively cheap T3 tech. Furthermore, it would require no unit to build and cannot be destroyed by an enemy vehicle like the bunker.

I'd look for a different solution like decreasing LMG42 cost from 60 to 50 munitions (LMG Grens are the only mainline that make Ostheer very stretched for munitions) or just making the med bunker slightly cheaper by 15 munitions.

Pioneers
Offensive veterancy for Eastern Front engineer units serves very little purpose, so this is being replaced by defensive veterancy to make them a bit more durable in the late game.

• Vet 3 +15% accuracy bonus replaced with -23% received accuracy
  

Their veterancy requirements are also higher compared to other builders unit, which makes it hard to ever get to vet 3 in the first place.

Teller Mines
Adjusting the performance and cost of Teller Mines should both increase their availability and make them less oppressive for the enemy, giving a positive net result. With these changes they will no longer instantly kill light vehicles, and will require a follow up (Panzerfaust etc.) to finish one.

• Cost reduced from 60 munitions to 45 munitions
  
• Damage from 400 to 320
  
• Now guarantees a heavy engine damage critical on light vehicles
  

Tellers cost 50 munitions currently, not 60 munitions, so a reduction to 40 munitions might be more fair.

It would be a big buff to the Stuart, which can just pop out and repair the engine damage for 25 munitions. If possible, a teller should give both light engine damage and heavy engine at the same time, so crit repair isn't as effective against it. If not, the Stuart should at least get a unique "Stuart Vehicle Crew" with repair critical cost increased to the cost of a teller.

222
The 222 is a very good light vehicle but with the relatively fast arrival of Allied light vehicles that can counter it, it can easily get caught out of position because it’s relatively slow. Replacing its vet 1 ability with a Speed Boost ability should help it escape slightly more often.

• Vet 1 Infantry Awareness replaced by Speed Boost ability
  
• Speed Boost ability: 30 munitions, grants +25% top speed and +20% acceleration, -50% weapon accuracy (or main weapon disabled) for 20 seconds
  

It would be a shame to see such a useful ability like infantry awareness be removed from another unit. I think the performance of the 222 against the Stuart and T70 is fine (at least in 1v1), it's just the (current) AEC that has too many benefits stacked against it. IMO, smoke of the Puma and AEC should be locked behind vet 1 to reduce their effectiveness at diving early on.

Also, this would be the worst speed boost ability in the game with the highest cost, lowest acceleration bonus, worst drawback and no additional bonus like reduced received accuracy.

Panzer Tactician
Panzer Tactician is too easy to use because it deploys smoke instantly. By adding a delay, it will become slightly less powerful.

• Now has a 0.5s delay before deploying
  

This should be extended to all smoke abilities that function like Panzer Tactician.

Nerfing Panzer Tactician would also make it unnecessary for the AT grenade to work through smoke, which afaik was added as a band-aid solution a long time ago when Panzer Tactician was much more prevalent and Allies (back then just Soviets) had no such ability of their own. This would also stop the AT grenade from working through sight blockers like hedges and walls.

Jaeger Armor Doctrine
Jaeger Armor doctrine is incredibly popular because the commander is very versatile, on top of fielding a superheavy call-in vehicle. By replacing one of its abilities, it should give the commander an additional weakness and make it more attractive to pick other commanders instead.

• Stuka Dive Bomb replaced with Ambush Training (or any other ability that is good but relatively low impact)
  
• Elefant can no longer use Spotting Scope upgrade
  

Replacing Stuka Dive Bomb is cool, but Ambush Training would be much too strong and annoying (sprinting Fausts and Schrecks and cloaked Bundles and MG's every game, imagine the horror).

I'd pick the single AT pass from CAS doctrine and buff it slightly or add AT Osttruppen with AT rifles to keep the doctrine thematic. Sandbags for mainlines from Osttruppen doctrine would also be enticing, they'd have increased buildtime after all.

I like most of it. Wish bunkers would cost popcap though.

I like almost all OKW changes with the exception of the proposed changes to the P4. I hope most of them can at least be tested by a larger group of players.

Like someone else said, the vet 1 ability on the Stug G should be replaced (not Stug E, that one functions differently).

I liked the idea of a cloaked ambush stance like Tank Ambush from Soviets. What this ability does:

-80% rotation for turretless vehicles when active.
First strike bonus:
+20% accuracy.
+20% penetration.
-25% reload time.
Vehicles can't move, when ability is active

It wouldn't have too much impact but would reward good play.

Great ideas i really like it.
But what do you think about landmatress with current stats but non doc available after anvil or hammer.

I really hope Relic will allow another major update in the future.

Also, here are my suggestions from 2 months ago

I think the Soviet M5 should have AOE heal on its medcrates.

They have limited healing options. They only really have the base medics, which is just 3 medics to six model squads, which often has dodgy healing because they get blocked if the base is congested, since they have no AOE.
Outside of this they have the commissar, the FHQ and the airborne healing drop in commanders.

Brits and US both have readily available heals so them not having AOE crates is fine.

M5 Halftrack
The M5 is given more utility with a healing option. The AA power is being reduced to become more in line with other similar units.
Unupgraded halftrack can now drop a single med crate (no AOE heal) for 15 munitions
Quad upgrade AA power reduced (values to be determined later)

I think everyone remember how useless medkit ability on OST grens (you will see it once in blue moon) and why the same ability will be much usefull for M5 is big question. It will be like cap point for SU heavies in past.

As was suggested in previous topic about halftracks (SU and OST):

Make 2 exlusive upgrades:
1. Make that Quad gun\Flamethrower give little amount of HP, to prevent death from 2-nd ATG shot.
2. Make medical station upgrade - give healing aura and increased area of reinforcement, but need some time to set up.

About AA abilities of M5. It's also the most fragile AA platfrom in game. In some situations AA stukas could easily destroy it, compare to Ostwind and UKF AA-tank.

Also considering Jäger Armour was changed did you forget to remove the IL2 bombs from the ISU doctrines? Or is that intentional? I remember you wrote in another thread you would want to have them removed.