The Churchill

Lets put comment Churchill here and comment of Comet in the other thread.

Too high pop, cost per performance is fine.

Churchill is stupidly durable. A high popcap is the only real cost of it. Resources are not lost until the tank is destroyed.

Good Health: 1400 health, 9 shots
Good Armor: 240 (better than OKW p4)
Good Vs infantry
Great escape smoke

Defiantly one of the better units vs P4s and can do well vs stugs.

Having more than one can make it hard to beat seeing the opponent has to do so much damage.

Pairs well with firefly and a damage sponge.

Much better than the KV1 as its counterpart.

I like it. It is a super-heavy medium tank. The only thing I would liked changed is the removal of the grenade, too effective vs AT guns. If it were to receive a rework, a hull down ability in exchange of durability would probably its best path.

Much better than the KV1 as its counterpart.

That's very debatable.

IMO the Churchill is worse than the KV1 because it doesn't have the damage modifier, has worse armour, has much worse pop cap, worse timing, less AI power and higher cost.

You spend most of the entire time repairing the Churchill unless you have a doctrine with auto repairs.

The only real advantage of the Churchill is the escape smoke + slightly better penetration but that's not enough to compensate for all the weaknesses.

That's very debatable.

IMO the Churchill is worse than the KV1 because it doesn't have the damage modifier, has worse armour, has much worse pop cap, worse timing, less AI power and higher cost.

You spend most of the entire time repairing the Churchill unless you have a doctrine with auto repairs.

The only real advantage of the Churchill is the escape smoke + slightly better penetration but that's not enough to compensate for all the weaknesses.

You mean besides being the most durable tank in the game? The TTK in 1v1 is the reason it got hit with the nerf bat. It may not do as well against Elephant and JT but they were undefeatable in 1s when you got more than 1 of them.

That's very debatable.

IMO the Churchill is worse than the KV1 because it doesn't have the damage modifier, has worse armour, has much worse pop cap, worse timing, less AI power and higher cost.

You spend most of the entire time repairing the Churchill unless you have a doctrine with auto repairs.

The only real advantage of the Churchill is the escape smoke + slightly better penetration but that's not enough to compensate for all the weaknesses.

KV1 has 270 armor, only slightly better.
800 Health plus a %20 damage reduction modifier. This will make it only 7 shots to kill.

Durability wise, the Churchill is better.

For anti infantry wise, The Churchill's main gun has less scatter and the aoe is more consistent while the KV1 has better close aoe damage. Seeing the Churchill's main gun is more consistent so hitting the same target, it does reliable damage this allows it to push infantry away easier especially in open fields.

The Churchill also supports some good MGs to support its Aoe Profile. Able to do consistent damage especially at close range. +2 at vet 1. I do not even know when the last time I saw the rear MG actually fired for the KV1

Royal Engineer Heavy Sapper upgrade is great for all repairs.

ALSO KV1 is doctrinal and Churchill is not
Hello?
you act like this doesnt matter but it matters big time since mainly meme commanders have it (B4 + mother russia)

i havent seen a kv1 in years, literally, appart from those i build myself (whilst meming with b4s),

You mean besides being the most durable tank in the game? The TTK in 1v1 is the reason it got hit with the nerf bat. It may not do as well against Elephant and JT but they were undefeatable in 1s when you got more than 1 of them.

When was the Churchill a meta go to tank in 1v1? Must have been years ago after UKF release because I really don't remember Churchills being meta in 1v1 in any tourney I ever watched. I honestly can't even remember a game in 1v1 where a Churchill was even build.

I personally can't say I ever found Churchills to be particularly OP in 1v1 or 2v2. Pretty sure the nerf was for 3v3 and 4v4 and not the smaller game modes.

It's also far from being the most durable tank when there is the 1280HP 375 armour KT around.

ALSO KV1 is doctrinal and Churchill is not
Hello?
you act like this doesnt matter but it matters big time since mainly meme commanders have it (B4 + mother russia)

i havent seen a kv1 in years, literally, appart from those i build myself (whilst meming with b4s),

KV1 was used by CreatifeName in UTT2. He used KV1s and won with them against the best of the best. Meanwhile I can't remember having seen any Churchills the entire tournament.

When was the Churchill a meta go to tank in 1v1? Must have been years ago after UKF release because I really don't remember Churchills being meta in 1v1 in any tourney I ever watched. I honestly can't even remember a game in 1v1 where a Churchill was even build.

I personally can't say I ever found Churchills to be particularly OP in 1v1 or 2v2. Pretty sure the nerf was for 3v3 and 4v4 and not the smaller game modes.

It's also far from being the most durable tank when there is the 1280HP 375 armour KT around.

2(?) patches ago? before heavies went through the roof. There was this big uproar when the community watched a game of price vs asha I think? Basically asha had like 3 churchills vs prices 4 StuGs and a p4, and price couldn't kill a single churchill. It just takes to long to kill them, and they can engage everything which makes them far more versatile.

That game is what basically drove the nail to the board for that popcap nerf.

yo blackdream, can you wake up?
who cares about tournaments. those 0.1% players participating in them are nowhere close to representing a playerbase of roughly 6000 Players.
i represent the average company of heroes 2 player more than any of the top tier players you might have seen in recent tournaments and my games (in which i see players from rank 30 to 2500) dont resemble whats happening in the aformentioned tournaments in any way shape or form.

as with any meta, which is shifting by the day btw, it is used by top tier players to get even the smallest edge over their opponents.
guess what, you and i, we dont deal with that kind of problem. you can do a pioneer only build and still have a good chance of winning, try that in a tournament

still after every event people come in this forum to cry about this and that, things they wouldnt even have noticed by playing the game themselfes
axis won more games? axis op
allies won more games? allies op
its mostly the same people anyway

i know, watching a competative scene makes people feel important but holy, its time to stop

this forum is an eternal loop, crying about competetivness in a game which in its core is not competetive. thank god (or relic) for that

--------------------------
this annoys me since i really enjoy the coh2 tournament scene and im glad that people in this community like A_E, stormless etc. keep it alive and fresh
dont make conclusions on what you see in those but what you experience yourself ingame

It feels like a budget king tiger. You downloaded the gun and the armour so you can pay less.

I'd rather just have a full king tiger tbh.

The Churchill also supports some good MGs to support its Aoe Profile. Able to do consistent damage especially at close range. +2 at vet 1. I do not even know when the last time I saw the rear MG actually fired for the KV1

KV-1 has the same powerful hull and coaxial machine guns as the T-34 which are much better than the ones on the Churchill.

you act like this doesnt matter but it matters big time since mainly meme commanders have it (B4 + mother russia)

Guard Rifle Combined Arms with the KV-1 and Guards is quite popular.

KV-1 has the same powerful hull and coaxial machine guns as the T-34 which are much better than the ones on the Churchill.

I guess they did change it. I just remember them having the old profiles which were not very good.

Though with the vet 1 mgs, the DPS is still higher. They have .85 moving accuracy which is very significant seeing most tanks are moving for their engagements.

Good Health: 1400 health, 9 shots
Good Armor: 240 (better than OKW p4)
Good Vs infantry
Great escape smoke

Defiantly one of the better units vs P4s and can do well vs stugs.

Having more than one can make it hard to beat seeing the opponent has to do so much damage.

Pairs well with firefly and a damage sponge.

Much better than the KV1 as its counterpart.

I like it. It is a super-heavy medium tank. The only thing I would liked changed is the removal of the grenade, too effective vs AT guns. If it were to receive a rework, a hull down ability in exchange of durability would probably its best path.

Firefly+Churchill = 36popcap

Kv-1+SU-85 = 29popcap

I would argue with these pop costs it doesn't pair well, seven pop is a hell of a lot when you already have bolstered sections eating into pop.

Brit late game needs a popcap rework and a rework to sections and bolster IMO. It's very noticeable in 1vs1s when a good infantry core is key to any game.

Firefly+Churchill = 36popcap

Kv-1+SU-85 = 29popcap

I would argue with these pop costs it doesn't pair well, seven pop is a hell of a lot when you already have bolstered sections eating into pop.

Brit late game needs a popcap rework and a rework to sections and bolster IMO. It's very noticeable in 1vs1s when a good infantry core is key to any game.

The Churchill's pop could be knocked down to 16 from 19 but the Firefly is much better than the SU-85

lol it is not churchill is too pop expensive

churchill has crazy good rotation and acceleration for a heavy tank, self repair, smoke, better gun, faster tracking than panther, better moving accuracy, higher side/rear armor

it is kv1 too pop cheap for its performance.

2 panthers = 36 pop just to deal with churchill or kv1, with no AI left.

Guard Rifle Combined Arms with the KV-1 and Guards is quite popular.

well is it?
in 1v1 and 2v2 its not