KT thread

At this point, its better to simply let things as they are and wait for a (very rarely possible) COH3 release.

KT has too much attention both sides, buffs and nerfs therefore its way too controversial to simply tweak it.

Allied need to dominate it, but axis have KT as their best stock tank option. Its almost like it didnt exists. Its only worth to snowball an already won game IMO.

A king tiger with self repair because the fastest repairing pios around and a building that also repairs isn't good enough... OK let's go back to making it so it's only viable with a specific unit in a specific doctrine. That direction has more value

A king tiger with self repair because the fastest repairing pios around and a building that also repairs isn't good enough... OK let's go back to making it so it's only viable with a specific unit in a specific doctrine. That direction has more value

that one gave me a bit of a chuckle

that one gave me a bit of a chuckle

A lot depends on how fast and munitions costly it would be.

A king tiger with self repair because the fastest repairing pios around and a building that also repairs isn't good enough... OK let's go back to making it so it's only viable with a specific unit in a specific doctrine. That direction has more value

Self repair would be ok imo - it would still be slow as hell and expensive as hell. The point is that OKW should not rely on sturmpios all the time. This solution would not touch KT stats. It would still be constantly repaired anyway as it is heavily outranged by 60 range kiting at tanks. The only balance difference would be that OKW would have sturmpios doing sth else (for example, repairing other tanks or trucks). That is where the balance is lost - not KT specifically.

Self repair would be ok imo - it would still be slow as hell and expensive as hell. The point is that OKW should not rely on sturmpios all the time. This solution would not touch KT stats. It would still be constantly repaired anyway as it is heavily outranged by 60 range kiting at tanks. The only balance difference would be that OKW would have sturmpios doing sth else (for example, repairing other tanks or trucks). That is where the balance is lost - not KT specifically.

The lovely thing about okw and the KT is toy don't HAVE to rely on Sturm pios. One of the building you HAVE to build to get the KT can upgrade to "self" repair not just the KT but all your armour! And your allies too! You can lose your pios in the first engagement, never replace them and still be able to keep your armour alive. Being able to combine the exceptional repair rate of sturms, the pop free heals of mech and self repair would be dreadfully awful design.

The lovely thing about okw and the KT is toy don't HAVE to rely on Sturm pios. One of the building you HAVE to build to get the KT can upgrade to "self" repair not just the KT but all your armour! And your allies too! You can lose your pios in the first engagement, never replace them and still be able to keep your armour alive. Being able to combine the exceptional repair rate of sturms, the pop free heals of mech and self repair would be dreadfully awful design.

I don't agree. When the engine is crippled (very easy with KT due to its slow speed, acceleration, etc) it is really difficult to back up for repairs. Allies have many more options. Think about manpower economy. This is what makes KT bad, not its stats.

I don't agree. When the engine is crippled (very easy with KT due to its slow speed, acceleration, etc) it is really difficult to back up for repairs. Allies have many more options. Think about manpower economy. This is what makes KT bad, not its stats.

Did you just said pios are able to outrepair AT shooting at KT?
Because you can't read it any other way if your argument is based "its too slow to back up to mech hq".

I don't agree. When the engine is crippled (very easy with KT due to its slow speed, acceleration, etc) it is really difficult to back up for repairs. Allies have many more options. Think about manpower economy. This is what makes KT bad, not its stats.

I don't mean to alarm you here... But that's exactly the purpose of busting a tanks engine. They call it a snare because it traps the tank. It's working as intended.

As for allies having more options?.
Stock:
Sov-combat engis
Ost- pios
UKF-sappers
USF-crew, RE
OKW, sturms, mech

Doctrinal:
Sov-con repair, self repair, repair stations (there are a few commanders that even have a combo of 2 of these)
OST-repair bunker
UKF - self repair smoke, advanced cancer repair drones
Okw- critical repair

So the conclusion is that the faction with the most, soviet, picking the right doctrine is tied with okw when they also pick the right doctrine.

Stock okw is tied only with usf, who obviously take the cake due to crews.

OKW doesn't have less options, you are just over extending and refusing to use the options you have.

The manpower economy can literally be subverted via mech truck. No pop cap upkeep nor model bleed. It sounds like you found your solution.

I'm not going to engage this any further and breathe and validity into the notion that of any tank, the heaviest and stock tank should be able to heal itself because repair drones and the best repair squad in the game isn't cutting it.

I don't mean to alarm you here... But that's exactly the purpose of busting a tanks engine. They call it a snare because it traps the tank. It's working as intended.

...and I fully agree here. The problem (imo) begins when you need to repair such tank. Allied factions will have crews, very cheap engineers or many commander abilities (repair stations, conscripts, smoke cover, self repair). They will also have access to crit repairs. They will also be more likely to crit axis vehicles with universal mines that always cripple the engine. There are many different types of snares on allied infantry - often on the same unit that has some form of a hand-held at. It is also important to note that okw will be facing one of the three allied factions or even all of them at the same time.

As okw, you will have to retreat to base or rely on a very expensive unit. The bleed is usually higher for the okw in the repair department. Their sturmpios are just more expensive to buy or reinforce than any other allied repair unit. When vehicles come back to their base to repair there is no bleed on those spawn engineers - true, but so far from the front line there almost always is no bleed anyway even for the regular engies.

To sum up, in real game scenario allies will have their vehicles back on the field much sooner due to all above. It gives KT much less presence than such an expensive vehicle should have comparing it to allied vehicles.

As for allies having more options?.
Stock:
Sov-combat engis
Ost- pios
UKF-sappers
USF-crew, RE
OKW, sturms, mech

Doctrinal:
Sov-con repair, self repair, repair stations (there are a few commanders that even have a combo of 2 of these)
OST-repair bunker
UKF - self repair smoke, advanced cancer repair drones
Okw- critical repair

So the conclusion is that the faction with the most, soviet, picking the right doctrine is tied with okw when they also pick the right doctrine.

Stock okw is tied only with usf, who obviously take the cake due to crews.

OKW doesn't have less options, you are just over extending and refusing to use the options you have.

The manpower economy can literally be subverted via mech truck. No pop cap upkeep nor model bleed. It sounds like you found your solution.

I'm not going to engage this any further and breathe and validity into the notion that of any tank, the heaviest and stock tank should be able to heal itself because repair drones and the best repair squad in the game isn't cutting it.

With this part I don't agree completely. Your conclusions are completely wrong and not based on facts in this case. I really don't know how you can suggest that, for example, USF and OKW are tied in the repair department. Also the suggestions about overextending are completely rubbish imo. As axis you generally have to overextend more than allies due to inferior range on most of their stock vehicles. The fact that they have to rely on armour, not range, makes the problem of repairs even more evident as being outranged they will tank more damage and will need to repair their units more. I don't understand how you can't see the fact that kiting is the best way to lure into mines, handheld ats and at guns range.

Only legitimate weakness of the KT is that of every axis HT in the form of T34 Ram + Offmap, otherwise the vehicle is decent to superb especially if Pz Commander is available to you

I think a core issue no one is taking seriously addressed is relative speeds.

Panthers and Jacksons have to have the same speed roughly speaking, because they both hunt each other. One has better acc/range and the other armor/hp

In the case of KT even though it has a very big HP pool and armor, its speed is mainly the reason it is so vulnerable. It is understandable that it cant be fast, both thematically ingame and IRL, but kiting a KT is both, very effective and micro intensive for the allied player, meanwhile the axis player must back up somehow the "best" unit instead and rarely use the KT as a support for the rest of the units.

If KT were to be compared to chess pieces, it SHOULD be the queen, (its the only logical analogue). Chess queens are higly mobile, very useful for aggressive movements but also very useful to support other pieces, it comes to a price, obviously, its rarity and reliable trade for any other piece, thats why you protect a queen in chess. In a turn based game a good anti-queen move is one composed by at least two other pieces. In RTS its hard to set up a good analogy but surely its related to APM tax.

Setting up a way too high APM tax to trade effectively (not killing single handed) a KT is a frustrating mechanic, an easy play for axis, a hard play for allied. To me that is a bad balance mechanic.

The way i would fix KT is simply making it an specialized AT tank, remove the AI almost completely. A top of the food chain unit should be vulnerable to the first unit available and the spine of their armies, mainline inf. I could be radically wrong, but at least its my 2 cents, as a humble oppinion. I think infantry tactics can be less frustrating than intense vehicle microing. Being said that i acknowledge that infantry AT is but a joke against a KT. Thats why i am out of ideas of how could infantry beat a KT.

Okw has enough AT that making the KT AT as well would just be overkill and would have to frustratingly OP to be even worth picking. Hell the tiger got a small AI nerf and people are crying harder that I've seen in ages, making the KT like that too.... It's a no from me dog.

KT is a rolling fortress. Slow and steady. It can win a game if properly supported, no matter what's going on, on the map. It's fine. If you use KT on small maps with lots of corners, well, it's your problem then. It's a non doctrinal heaviest heavy tank. What more could you want?

Let's give it 999 armour so that TDs can't penetrate it and let's give it 3 top MG gunners so it can wipe infantry within seconds. That's basically some of the replies on this thread. In order to counter KT, you need tank destroyers. I've seen game winning plays with one KT and supporting infantry. The worst mode to use KT is 1v1 since it can get destroyed if it's left unsupported and it's quite slow. Anyone that thinks that KT is underperforming needs a reality check

I thought the game was balance for 1v1? If its underperforming in 1v1 than it needs a buff.

I thought the game was balance for 1v1? If its underperforming in 1v1 than it needs a buff.

Its old way.

1v1 does not hold exclusive priority for a long time now.