Nerf/remove sandbags from mainlines

I'm not sure about the stat/cost changes, but I absolutely agree that no mainline should be able to build sandbags. Voted yes.

*Talking to the conscripts in-game
In soviet russia, you do not build sandbags...

Sandbags build YOU!

#ImbaSUsandbags

No. If anything sandbags should probably be available on more units to reward planning and positioning.

Only way I would support this is if both sandbags and "natural" green cover had their durability massively buffed to compensate, and at that point you are just creating more work to do in order to justify such a buff to mindless A-move blobbing.

load of nonsense . Early (before t70) with no sandbags there will be no way to protect own fuel against mg a-move or even to stop okw blob.

Esp. with those mg ostrupen builds they will camp on both fuel with ease from the start. Even if sandbags are just delayed by 50%.

After T3 Sandbag build time can be increased in exchange for their durability vs tanks. Maybe as an upgrade

No. If anything sandbags should probably be available on more units to reward planning and positioning.

Is rewarding planning though if they are commonly available? Cause then you don't really have to think about it, you'll just have cover wherever you send your squad

I think cons should be the only mainline with sandbags, and I like the changes storm suggested to limit their use

Is rewarding planning though if they are commonly available? Cause then you don't really have to think about it, you'll just have cover wherever you send your squad

I think cons should be the only mainline with sandbags, and I like the changes storm suggested to limit their use

Assuming you can manage to put down the cover in the first place, sure, yes.

It's either this or sandbags and green cover get a hefty durability buff, since all the natural green cover is gone in the first 10-15 minutes of the game and engineers have a billion other things to do besides put down sandbags that are going to vanish in 10 or so seconds of combat. Maybe mortars would have more of a reason to exist too, to drive enemy infantry out of cover that doesn't just vanish with a single tank shell or a quick infantry skirmish.

As it is, the idea of a mainline sandbag nerf is really just more Ostheer main sobbing by proxy and I don't know why this forum still kowtows to it after the last few updates. Removing sandbags from volksgrens in particular, and this bleed-focused Sturmpio rework, are enough to open a can full of OKW balance worms, and I don't see the actual controversy over actually being able to have your troops dig in without dragging one of two squads from across the map, especially when, as I've already said, the cover itself vanishes faster and faster as the game goes by, and engineers have more and more to do.

I really have no idea why this forum cries about a-move blobs so much when it seems every other proposed update is meant to nerf some counter to blobbing or another.

I think units should take more damage while conscructing them. I don't know the numbers, but the penalty for constructions seems way lower than for repairing.

Moving it all to Builder units is a big no. Not a very well thought out idea at all.

Voted yes, will be a massive dissadvantage (Again) to UKF due to not having sappers out first to do all the wiring and bagging but its for the best in terms of game flow.

Just putting sandbags down as you're capping a cut off and making it incredibly difficult to attack isn't fun to play against.

*1000 yard stare*

i'd say no to the op's proposal as a whole, although slightly increasing the build time of sandbags might not be a bad idea.
positioning in conjunction with cover is one of the key features of the coh franchise, and i'd rather see it being used more than less (which is obviously what moving cover to engineers would achieve).

Tie Tommy Sandbags to Grenade Upgrade maybe?

UKF


OKW
Move sandbags from Volks to Spios. Decrease Spio build cost from 300 to 250-260 and increase their reinforce cost by 3-4 per model.

dumbest idea ever

if you want to tweak sandbags, you would have to change whole balance which is undoable, i wanna see you play okw vs usf without sandbags, you will lose most of engagements
removing sandbags from mainline=buffing usf, tho i agree IS shouldnt have them
increasing sturmpio cost is even more stupid cuz you get them for free and they still bleed so fuking much and their usage in game is very limited and strict, every mistake bleeds you a lot of mp, you cant survive without them due to no healing so you have to insta rebuild 300mp in case of losing them, also they are already 300mp for sweeping mines and repairs, also they can repair effectively only when hit vet3

if you want to tweak sandbags, you would have to change whole balance which is undoable, i wanna see you play okw vs usf without sandbags, you will lose most of engagements
removing sandbags from mainline=buffing usf, tho i agree IS shouldnt have them
increasing sturmpio cost is even more stupid cuz you get them for free and they still bleed so fuking much and their usage in game is very limited and strict, every mistake bleeds you a lot of mp, you cant survive without them due to no healing so you have to insta rebuild 300mp in case of losing them, also they are already 300mp for sweeping mines and repairs, also they can repair effectively only when hit vet3

There's only 1 mainline that doesn't have sandbags. That's the one that benefits.

Facing a USF that spams sandbags and M6 mines with his mailines is pure cancer and needs to be removed. Imagine if Volks could lay schu mines.

250mp 7pop Spios = you can afford 2 of them, meaning better repairs and most importantly you can actually have 2 sweepers, meaning you don't have to blob behind your only sweeper so as not to bleed mp out your ass.

increasing sturmpio cost is even more stupid cuz you get them for free and they still bleed so fuking much and their usage in game is very limited and strict

2 spios now = 600mp (remember your starting spio isn't free, if you reduce the mp cost you get the mp at the game start)

2 spios with my change = 500mp

with 3 reinforce cost extra you'd break even after 33 model losses, all the while you have 2 sweepers on the field to limit other units from bleeding, increasing field presence and better repairs.

It's a sizeable OKW buff, not a nerf.

There's only 1 mainline that doesn't have sandbags. That's the one that benefits.

Facing a USF that spams sandbags and M6 mines with his mailines is pure cancer and needs to be removed. Imagine if Volks could lay schu mines.

250mp 7pop Spios = you can afford 2 of them, meaning better repairs and most importantly you can actually have 2 sweepers, meaning you don't have to blob behind your only sweeper so as not to bleed mp out your ass.

you said 34mp to reinforce spios, mine/sandbag riflemen are cancer, shouldnt be in game, but volks cant survive without sandbags - riflemen can
if volks have no sandbags riflemen will stomp them

if volks have no sandbags riflemen will stomp them

You'd have 2 spios on the field to build cover. Remember this change means no mainline can build cover.

You'd have 2 spios on the field to build cover. Remember this change means no mainline can build cover.

the only mainline that can build is volks and tommies, grens cant, rfs cant, tommies shouldnt be able to but brits are out of balance anyway
i dont wanna play with double spio, you will bleed and do nothing cuz spios are bad especially vs usf/ukf
spios are only good vs sov and in the early game

also they can repair effectively only when hit vet3

They get increased repair speed at vet 2. Getting vet 2 is very easy now with the reduced veterancy requirements and because they are combat troops. The minesweeper upgrade also gives extra repair speed. And there's the Mechanized automated repairs upgrade. In regards to repairs, their cost is fully compensated by all these other bonuses.

They get increased repair speed at vet 2. Getting vet 2 is very easy now with the reduced veterancy requirements. The minesweeper upgrade also gives extra repair speed. And there's the Mechanized automated repairs upgrade.

they get repair speed at vet3

No they don't. They get it at vet 2 like every other engineer unit. They get increased construction speed at vet 3 (and 4).

No they don't. They get it at vet 2 like every other engineer unit. They get increased construction speed at vet 3 (and 4).

so descriptions of veterancy levels are wrong?
https://imgur.com/a/Xzz5ubB