Isn´t maxim aoe suppression

...I would take a ppsh con approach and give them 2 or 3 mp40s at a reduced cost.

Imo that is the worst approach weapon with different profiles should not mix. It creates unit that are decent in variety of ranges and totally messes up DPS drop with entity drop.

If smg are powerful (and they are inline in allied smg as far as I know) on should change the profile and not weapon composition.

It would be better to give the smoke nades to Sturms instead of their stun nades.

Or rework the schreck upgrade to include support abilities like smoke nades or mark target to make it worth getting a second Sturm.

My proposal is for combined arms, I'd like to no e the flame nade to sturms and think flame and smoke and all their other shit would be too heavy of a work load on sturms. Volks imo should be more like the support for the number of more elite infantry that okw has the focus on firepower.

I am not sure if you noticed but Volksgrenadiers are the worst mainline infantry tied with Grenadiers at the moment. Please elaborate how Volksgrenadiers plug the holes when they are worse than any Allied mainline infantry.

How are you going to play OKW on open maps if you only have MP40 upgrade for your Volks? That's a completely crazy idea and I have no idea how anyone could come up with something like that.

Volks are yuur snare and your anti garrison and you main capping force and your budget assault unit and your meat shield and and and and and. Anything the okw lacked went to volks and it shows. They are basicly lite rifles which is a poor design on a faction with 2 sets of elite infantry stock and a number of high AI units doctrinally.

As for fighting on open maps. M. They have rifles you know right? Those are long range weapons. The idea is that you would chose to keep some of your volks as rifles instead of auto upgrading to the infinitely superior STG the second you can afford it. An auto buy upgrade is a badly designed one. If that doesn't tweak your nips in the right manner okw also has a very high long range DPS specialist in obers. And if that still isn't enough you have doctrinal fussies in 2 doctrines, JLI in 2 doctrines and falls in 1. Volks should be the answer to everything and yuur complaint highlights that they are....

I am not sure if you noticed but Volksgrenadiers are the worst mainline infantry tied with Grenadiers at the moment. Please elaborate how Volksgrenadiers plug the holes when they are worse than any Allied mainline infantry.

How are you going to play OKW on open maps if you only have MP40 upgrade for your Volks? That's a completely crazy idea and I have no idea how anyone could come up with something like that.

They're better than cons before 7th man shows up imo. And they have obers stock for those open maps, late game at least

My proposal is for combined arms, I'd like to no e the flame nade to sturms and think flame and smoke and all their other shit would be too heavy of a work load on sturms. Volks imo should be more like the support for the number of more elite infantry that okw has the focus on firepower.

Volks are yuur snare and your anti garrison and you main capping force and your budget assault unit and your meat shield and and and and and. Anything the okw lacked went to volks and it shows. They are basicly lite rifles which is a poor design on a faction with 2 sets of elite infantry stock and a number of high AI units doctrinally.

As for fighting on open maps. M. They have rifles you know right? Those are long range weapons. The idea is that you would chose to keep some of your volks as rifles instead of auto upgrading to the infinitely superior STG the second you can afford it. An auto buy upgrade is a badly designed one. If that doesn't tweak your nips in the right manner okw also has a very high long range DPS specialist in obers. And if that still isn't enough you have doctrinal fussies in 2 doctrines, JLI in 2 doctrines and falls in 1. Volks should be the answer to everything and yuur complaint highlights that they are....

So you think 5 K98 Volks are a viable long-range infantry unit when they are facing Infantry Sections, Bar/30cal Riflemen and Sections? OK.

As for all the other points, this applies for all factions. Mainline infantry is supposed to be versatile and carry a faction, not sure what the problem is here?

So you think 5 K98 Volks are a viable long-range infantry unit when they are facing Infantry Sections, Bar/30cal Riflemen and Sections? OK.

As for all the other points, this applies for all factions. Mainline infantry is supposed to be versatile and carry a faction, not sure what the problem is here?

Iirc stg volks have like 2 DPS more than Kars at long range so tbh not much in that regard would change. Side note, why the ever loving fuck SHOULD volks be viable against more expensive infantry using long range specialized weapons? They have obers and obers will eat both rifles and Tommie for breakfast. As they should. Because they cost more.

Other factions don't have a Sturm and overs in their stock line up.. M volks were never meant to be the be all end all for OKW infantry they were very much intended to utilize the various elite infantry squads they have both stock and doctrinal and volks were to make up the meat.

The idea is that the become versatile but not simply better at all ranges. If you NEED CQB you get the mp40s but it's not a no brainer click like stgs are. The added utility of smoke brings more to the upgrade as well. Hell I'd even keep the target size reduction mp40 volks get. It's changing them and opening more room for variety as well as raising the skill cap of the faction. Weapon upgrades should be targeted to specialization not a simple "we are just better now no matter how you try and fight us" there was an entire patch focused on that idea. Ost pios were OP as fuck. I was there. It's a very good design decision that should have been run with instead of the mess of an upgrade system WFA got.

While i agree with thedarkarmadillo, i would really like to bring up the "counter" feature of AI only squads. While we all agree on some unwritten laws like -Elite infantry are infantry counters- when it comes to costs many equations blurr in very confusing ways. At least from the player perspective.

I know its too technical to add a "AI coefficient" to specifically show how effective a squad should be against another squads, because it is embedded in the weapon profiles+Acc and the squads RA+Models. But seriously it would benefit the sake of all posterior arguments to define some constants.

Imagine something like: Penals have 1.5 AI coefficient, meaning that to the penal squad cost, you can expect it to beat another infantry squad costing as much as 1.5 times the penals costs. After removing RNG variations that would benefit/detriment the penal performance

And then, undoubtely a squad will end up having something like a "Anti AI coefficient", because you want to mitigate the offensive aspect of a very specialized AI squad. To name one, obersoldaten vs shocks. You need shock troops to have an opportunity window to close the game and win even against costs ratios. Only because weapon profiles exists.

Being said that, some weapon upgrades like volks stgs could change the AI coeficient due its muni costs, like Riflemen BARS or IS brens or gren LMG. But on some cases the only thing changing is the specific range interaction, meanwhile other weapon upgrades change the generalist units into a specialized AI squad, with snares (not the case of IS though)

These controversial mechanics are currently implemented, no one really knows the coefficients i just made up but they have a real impact on the game and i didnt want to add veterancies yet.

To keep the thread topic, HMGs have a natural AI coefficient but also have the suppressive aspect that makes them an excellent crowd control unit or at least a control unit, given the fact that the in game units can be asked to do unnatural combat maneuvers like charging frontally an HMG. Its a game, therefore like every single game you need to limit the users inputs and give it reasonable and balanced boundaries.

Should maxim have better crowd control? IMO yes, but sadly i cant come up with a creative yet constructive enough idea to make it happen. I though the last vet1 change was good, but its true that maxims vet0 are still that trashy HMGs we all know.

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There are plenty of units that have "no brainer" upgrades. 7 man cons, mg34 obers, BAR rifles(after racks), FG42 FSJ and plenty others.
The STGs arent really about choice, but rather a general power spike at a specific timing to allow volks to stay competitive in the same way that the 7 man upgrade works for cons.
Both are just flat upgrades, both take up all weapon slots, the stgs arrive substantially earlier but the 7 man upgrade is more powerful and scales better.

Iirc stg volks have like 2 DPS more than Kars at long range so tbh not much in that regard would change. Side note, why the ever loving fuck SHOULD volks be viable against more expensive infantry using long range specialized weapons? They have obers and obers will eat both rifles and Tommie for breakfast. As they should. Because they cost more.

Yes, Obers are there to pick up the AI mid to late game. But making Volks even worse would cause issues because you'd still need 3-4 Volks for the early to mid game and then you'd be stuck with near useless squads just causing bleed trying to get Obers. Cons had a similar issue before the 7th man upgrade.

I absolutely agree that weapon upgrades should've been designed as more strategic choices rather than no-brain upgrades that are better than the stock weapons in every way, but that's something that can't be changed at this point without causing severe issues.