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russian armor

IL2 Precision strike seems uncounterable

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2 May 2020, 09:55 AM
#84
avatar of Kieselberg

Posts: 268

Can we come back to the topic?

Can someone test, wether single strafe planes can be shot down, while having to fly over the whole map? In doint care wether one has to use, 20 aa guns. I think, that we should clarify wether it is possible or not. Right now, we only have suggestions.
2 May 2020, 10:47 AM
#86
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

Can we come back to the topic?

Can someone test, wether single strafe planes can be shot down, while having to fly over the whole map? In doint care wether one has to use, 20 aa guns. I think, that we should clarify wether it is possible or not. Right now, we only have suggestions.

It is possible for planes that do bomb runs not for Stuka dive bomb that does not use a plane.
2 May 2020, 15:00 PM
#88
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 1003

jump backJump back to quoted post2 May 2020, 10:47 AMVipper

Stuka dive bomb that does not use a plane.


is V1 rocket :)
2 May 2020, 15:02 PM
#89
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1954

jump backJump back to quoted post2 May 2020, 09:45 AMVipper

Load the game and try the unit you will see that Valentine has an "observation mode" that should be used when trying to call in barrage to prevent firing and giving away the position.

In addition it gets extra vision at vet 1.

Now pls stop you silly crusade I am sure moderator have better thing than dealing with you.


As for OP, why is only the IL2 being uncounterable a balance problem? The similarly priced Railway, Stuka, and 280mm do the same thing, have no counters, but somehow don't create a balance problem?
2 May 2020, 15:19 PM
#90
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post2 May 2020, 15:02 PMGrumpy


LOL - you make several misleading statements, get called on it, and now you're implying that the moderators are going to come to your rescue? Um, good luck with that.

As for OP, why is only the IL2 being uncounterable a balance problem? The similarly priced Railway, Stuka, and 280mm do the same thing, have no counters, but somehow don't create a balance problem?


That is, there is no problem. Other factions have artillery strikes with a similar price with similar productivity or a dive strike in which there is no plane at all and they cannot be counteracted, but no one is discussing this. There is no problem and no sense for the topic.
2 May 2020, 15:25 PM
#91
avatar of Darkpiatre

Posts: 282

jump backJump back to quoted post2 May 2020, 15:02 PMGrumpy


LOL - you make several misleading statements, get called on it, and now you're implying that the moderators are going to come to your rescue? Um, good luck with that.

As for OP, why is only the IL2 being uncounterable a balance problem? The similarly priced Railway, Stuka, and 280mm do the same thing, have no counters, but somehow don't create a balance problem?


Well the others are arty: cover a different type of area, have a more spread damages and take longer to land. While IL2 Bombing has no RNG involve because it is a fix patern and can be as good as regular Arty against structure while being really good against tank (1 strike seems close to Oneshot an heavy tank).

So you end up with a faster, more reliable/precise tool which is more versatile. And since the best comparison seems to be the Stuka dive, I think it can't actually One-shot any medium and above tank (I wonder if it is enough to kill a light though).

So if the IL2 is invincible like the Stuka, stuka dive have nothing more than having a long loud song instead of red flares while being worst against tank.

Conclusion: IL2 is better while having no drawback/counter.

And that is a Balance issue.
2 May 2020, 15:30 PM
#92
avatar of Musti

Posts: 203



That is, there is no problem. Other factions have artillery strikes with a similar price with similar productivity or a dive strike in which there is no plane at all and they cannot be counteracted, but no one is discussing this. There is no problem and no sense for the topic.


Pretty much this, and as for off-maps one shotting howitzers? thats their intended desing and the only reliable counter against them
There's a reason why time-on-target was buffed specifically so it always 1-shots howitzers, and not just decrews them.
There's also a reason why Howitzers can't be built in base sectors, where off-maps can't reach.

That's just COH2 works.
2 May 2020, 15:31 PM
#93
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

Can we come back to the topic?

Can someone test, wether single strafe planes can be shot down, while having to fly over the whole map? In doint care wether one has to use, 20 aa guns. I think, that we should clarify wether it is possible or not. Right now, we only have suggestions.


Obviously the plane can be shot down, more so if it has to deliver it's payload in the middle of the map. The problem comes near the edges of the map and how preemptively you need the AA unit to be to the point of having to read the future in order to do so.

You can't solve this with changing the speed of the plane, cause the bombs are dropped way before reaching target. Depending on map size and borders, units have little to no time to shoot at them before they drop their content.
2 May 2020, 16:10 PM
#95
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

Valentine sight:
Base 35
Observation mode 52.5
Vet 1 42
Vet 1 Observation mode 63
2 May 2020, 17:05 PM
#96
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4

Please don't use mods as threats.
2 May 2020, 18:18 PM
#98
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1954



Well the others are arty: cover a different type of area, have a more spread damages and take longer to land. While IL2 Bombing has no RNG involve because it is a fix patern and can be as good as regular Arty against structure while being really good against tank (1 strike seems close to Oneshot an heavy tank).

So you end up with a faster, more reliable/precise tool which is more versatile. And since the best comparison seems to be the Stuka dive, I think it can't actually One-shot any medium and above tank (I wonder if it is enough to kill a light though).

So if the IL2 is invincible like the Stuka, stuka dive have nothing more than having a long loud song instead of red flares while being worst against tank.

Conclusion: IL2 is better while having no drawback/counter.

And that is a Balance issue.


No, not really, unless you believe that everything Axis has to be clearly superior to anything Allied.

Also, are you really sure that the IL2 is faster than the Stuka, 280mm, and railway? I'd be that at the edge of the map, they are comparable (the IL2 might be faster, but would need a stopwatch to tell) but in the middle of Steppes the IL2 is probably slower. In any event, does a second or two difference in the time to counter really create a balance issue?
2 May 2020, 18:34 PM
#99
avatar of Darkpiatre

Posts: 282

jump backJump back to quoted post2 May 2020, 18:18 PMGrumpy


No, not really, unless you believe that everything Axis has to be clearly superior to anything Allied.

Also, are you really sure that the IL2 is faster than the Stuka, 280mm, and railway? I'd be that at the edge of the map, they are comparable (the IL2 might be faster, but would need a stopwatch to tell) but in the middle of Steppes the IL2 is probably slower. In any event, does a second or two difference in the time to counter really create a balance issue?


Then let's just suppose they all have the same speed, doesn't really matter since it wasn't the main issue with the ability that I described.
2 May 2020, 18:43 PM
#100
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358



And... how its 35 sight range good compared to all other non scout units normal 35 sight range?
There really isn't lower sight range then 35, so how is it good on valentine, but standard on anything else?

Why dont we reduce valentine vision to see if you can still complaint the same way about it.
This way you will end up giving vipper the reason instead of going full semantic warrior.

The point was made, valentine is a reliable (not the best) scouting tool. Not the only one also, so lets not start a world war for a simple observation.
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