Changes i feel grens need

Normally I'd shoot back that Tommie need to be able to build cover to fight properly but that's a scrapped mechanic so waiting for sappers to arrive to have bags wouldn't be an issue I don't think scrap em from all but cons and ostroppen and out bags on all engineers but CE. seems straight forward enough

This idea comes from that volks and sections preform so well because they can just plop down cover everywhere and also have weapon upgrades and have 5 men.
Even without sandbags cons coudnt fight volks before 7th man was introduced. The combi of bags and upgrades on a single unit is to strong imo.

Normally I'd shoot back that Tommie need to be able to build cover to fight properly but that's a scrapped mechanic so waiting for sappers to arrive to have bags wouldn't be an issue I don't think scrap em from all but cons and ostroppen and out bags on all engineers but CE. seems straight forward enough

Yep. Test this first and done.

Next step could be to remove them from cons too allowing them for a bundled molotov and at nade package. CEs are cheap and they should build them.

Yep. Test this first and done.

Next step could be to remove them from cons too allowing them for a bundled molotov and at nade package. CEs are cheap and they should build them.

Okay since you want to standerdize everythingit seems. 50 muni for non doc svt's as replacement for loosing the sandbags....

Come on dude ce's being cheap is no reason for them to build sandbags. Ce's are cheap for reasons i told you a thousand times.

It boggles my mind how people still suggest removing sandbags from mainlines, despite the balance team constantly telling people it's not happening at this stage in the game's life cycle.

Okay since you want to standerdize everythingit seems. 50 muni for non doc svt's as replacement for loosing the sandbags....

Come on dude ce's being cheap is no reason for them to build sandbags. Ce's are cheap for reasons i told you a thousand times.

I remember well

I'd rather make ppsh stock in some form. Sort of squishy close range squad to oorah behind team weapons. Maybe assaut cons (squishier than the rest but could buy success with their lives).

It boggles my mind how people still suggest removing sandbags from mainlines, despite the balance team constantly telling people it's not happening at this stage in the game's life cycle.

Maybe they need a bit of a push

Maybe they need a bit of a push

Definitely not from you though.

Some people can't move out from the first stage of grief (denial)

Maybe they need a bit of a push

Even though I'd personally love to rework the sandbags dynamic, as I think sandbags on mainline infantry was a mistake by Relic (except for Cons), it is simply not feasible to do so at this point. We don't know how long Relic will continue to support the game, every patch can be the last. Sandbags are a huge part of the power level of Volksgrenadiers and Infantry Sections and removing them from these units would very likely require multiple other adjustments/compensations that would probably take 2-3 patches to iron out. It's simply not a risk that can be taken.

Even though I'd personally love to rework the sandbags dynamic, it is simply not feasible to do so at this point. We don't know how long Relic will continue to support the game, every patch can be the last. Sandbags are a huge part of the power level of Volksgrenadiers and Infantry Sections and removing them from these units would very likely require multiple other adjustments/compensations that would probably take 2-3 patches to iron out. It's simply not a risk that can be taken.

I perfectly understand the logics here. Yet, I wish it could be done. Maybe just a small muni cost to prevent "the more, the merrier" approach?

Edit:
...or maybe, finally, give them to grens.

It boggles my mind how people still suggest removing sandbags from mainlines, despite the balance team constantly telling people it's not happening at this stage in the game's life cycle.

These exact same people keep asking for completely new units to be put into the game. They aren't the sharpest knives when it comes to talking things within the realm of possibilities, they aren't even aware of existence of this realm.

If sandbags are globally agreed problem by more then Justice League of 4digitrank, then start from increasing build time for long range units that benefit most from them, so if you want to build them during cap, you'd have to linger there after you finish before you move on to next one.

Well, i guess we are at bargaining stage.

Yep. Test this first and done.

Next step could be to remove them from cons too allowing them for a bundled molotov and at nade package. CEs are cheap and they should build them.

I'd leave them on cons just because they are supposed to provide utility to the masses and they don't get their upgrade until much much later so they rely on their positioning much later. Kinda like I wouldn't take the bags of ostroppen or the previous version of Tommie. If it's pivotal to the usage of the unit for the majority of their life I say it should stay.

As for the molotov and AT nade combo, tbh imo they are both cheap enough now that it's not a HUGE deal since cons have some ability to perform late game. As a matter of fact I might even go as far as to suggest that 7man require both upgrades even at t4 (no extra side tech tho) just to beef up the cost/ performance ratio of 7 man cons a bit.

Even though I'd personally love to rework the sandbags dynamic, as I think sandbags on mainline infantry was a mistake by Relic (except for Cons), it is simply not feasible to do so at this point. We don't know how long Relic will continue to support the game, every patch can be the last. Sandbags are a huge part of the power level of Volksgrenadiers and Infantry Sections and removing them from these units would very likely require multiple other adjustments/compensations that would probably take 2-3 patches to iron out. It's simply not a risk that can be taken.

I totally get that. Imo tho, sandbags are such a pivotal point of infantry combat and as you say, is a huge part of the power level of the units that have it I think it should be worth a look. Even if it's just a build time change to start on those that... Need them less?


Side note I'm not sure why Relic would abandon coh2 when there is such a passionate community, including a dedicated team of modders trying to tweak what they then selves have given up on. I know it's inevitable but I feel like as long as there is as much chatter and discussion about this old of a game as there is they would be happy keep it at least on life support.

So i´ve been watching some twitch streams.
And every time i see grens with mg42, they get shit on cause of everyone just running into them and they go down.
Mg42 also means your static while dpsing which means you get shit on by all indirect fighting.

But Kuhlmann whats your point? G43 baby!

The only thing grens need is g43 baseline and the commanders with g43 get the jaeger light infantry snipers from okw.

But Kuhlmann what makes g43 so special, id like to know?

Well gren g43 is amazing cause of how fast they vet and once vet2 they get 40% accuracy which means they can kill retreating units with ease.

Add in sprint from jaeger commander and your grens counter mgs easy.

No more shit on grens, grens shit on you.

I can´t play ostheer without g43 and sprint, it´s so refreshing to pwn with grens and not get shit on.