Changes i feel grens need

Is the 251 really OP? Just cuz it was popular (like ostruppen) doesn't mean it's OP. But I'm not surprised that this statement is coming from you, katitof. "Nerf whatever is popular for Ostheer. Because God forbid, Ostheer is allowed to win games."

Would soviet M5 be OP if it arrived early to support current cons and penals?

Same deal if grens got performance buffs, especially as insane as stock 5th early game.

You want to play brits, go play brits, don't mold axis into them but without all the downsides.

Would soviet M5 be OP if it arrived early to support current cons and penals?

M5 is better cuz it's bulletproof, if it wasn't the M5 would be quite UP for its timing.

A few earlier posts made a great point which I totally agree. Section moving acc should never have been buffed from 35 to 50%. Sections are supposed to perform a bit like Ostruppen but we all understand that the penalty for standing out of cover shouldn't be anywhere as harsh as it is for Ostruppen. The key word is STANDING. Not running and gunning.

And UKF doesn't need anymore offensive infantry, contrary to what the bal team patchnotes suggest. They just got ass tommies and commandos in around half the doctrines. And sappers, despite the nerf from 0.8 to 0.9 RA are still ridiculously efficient compared to pios - I've seen 4man sweeper sappers beat stock pios.

Right now, sections have zero weaknesses other than not having a snare which isn't really a weakness as sappers have one. They're still amazing in cover, and excellent out in the open and just as good as all other inf on the move.

I say that we nerf the moving acc for sections - 25% acc on the move. Sections can't be both amazing defensive AND good offensive infantry. There's absolutely ZERO reason for sections to be constantly running and gunning. U wanna do that, then play USF, which have noticeably less long range DPS. It's called moving from cover to cover - something UKF players need to get thru their thick skulls. I still want sections to be decent out of cover when stationary though which it seems the bal team has already addressed.

The reason why grens have struggled over the last 2 patches is due to the uncalled for rifle buffs and the OP 7man upgrade. Now cons, in theory, should be balanced, but now still struggle vs rifles and now the new terminator sections. Grens themselves are fine.

The whole reason why bal team made 7man cons so OP in the first place was due to volks being OP. It certainly wasn't because they struggled vs grens. Rifles also struggled early game vs volk cost efficiency. EVERYONE called for volk nerfs and nobody not even codguy called for rifle buffs. But the bal team...... the things they do will surprise you. When there is a CLEAR offending unit, they decide to change everything else around it. SMH. And for the infinite time, I'm gonna sound like a broken record, the rifle (and tOtALLy iNtenTIonAL officer) buffs came at the expense of Ost getting fucked over and not just grens were affected but agrens were also noticeably impacted as well as the assgren - rifle matchup balance was standing on a razor's edge.

If the bal team simply gave volks a REAL nerf (ie. remove sandbags and shift 0.9 RA vet 1 bonus to vet 2) There would be no need for rifle buffs or 7man cons, or at least not with the combat bonuses on top of the extra man) And "balance" would be in a much better state.

The reason why grens have struggled over the last 2 patches is due to the uncalled for rifle buffs and the OP 7man upgrade. Now cons, in theory, should be balanced, but now still struggle vs rifles and now the new terminator sections. Grens themselves are fine.

The whole reason why bal team made 7man cons so OP in the first place was due to volks being OP. It certainly wasn't because they struggled vs grens. Rifles also struggled early game vs volk cost efficiency. EVERYONE called for volk nerfs and nobody not even codguy called for rifle buffs. But the bal team...... the things they do will surprise you. When there is a CLEAR offending unit, they decide to change everything else around it. SMH. And for the infinite time, I'm gonna sound like a broken record, the rifle (and tOtALLy iNtenTIonAL officer) buffs came at the expense of Ost getting fucked over and not just grens were affected but agrens were also noticeably impacted as well as the assgren - rifle matchup balance was standing on a razor's edge.

If the bal team simply gave volks a REAL nerf (ie. remove sandbags and shift 0.9 RA vet 1 bonus to vet 2) There would be no need for rifle buffs or 7man cons, or at least not with the combat bonuses on top of the extra man) And "balance" would be in a much better state.

Actually CODGUY thinks Grens > Rifles and need a 300mp price tag.

The reason why grens have struggled over the last 2 patches is due to the uncalled for rifle buffs and the OP 7man upgrade. Now cons, in theory, should be balanced, but now still struggle vs rifles and now the new terminator sections. Grens themselves are fine.

One look at patch notes would prove you wrong

Old guards, old Tommies (that had 0.75 RA) and old penals all had much much better stats than they do now. 7man cons are ok but not as good as old wall of DP guards that gave obers a run for their money and shut down LV play.

But apparently now pgrens being stronger with earlier vet and timing, better grens with doctrines and T4 buffs mean the balance team is bias and allied inf are terminators now?

Do you understand how stats work?

0.85 is worse than 0.75

The reason why grens have struggled over the last 2 patches is due to the uncalled for rifle buffs and the OP 7man upgrade. Now cons, in theory, should be balanced, but now still struggle vs rifles and now the new terminator sections. Grens themselves are fine.

The whole reason why bal team made 7man cons so OP in the first place was due to volks being OP. It certainly wasn't because they struggled vs grens. Rifles also struggled early game vs volk cost efficiency. EVERYONE called for volk nerfs and nobody not even codguy called for rifle buffs. But the bal team...... the things they do will surprise you. When there is a CLEAR offending unit, they decide to change everything else around it. SMH. And for the infinite time, I'm gonna sound like a broken record, the rifle (and tOtALLy iNtenTIonAL officer) buffs came at the expense of Ost getting fucked over and not just grens were affected but agrens were also noticeably impacted as well as the assgren - rifle matchup balance was standing on a razor's edge.

If the bal team simply gave volks a REAL nerf (ie. remove sandbags and shift 0.9 RA vet 1 bonus to vet 2) There would be no need for rifle buffs or 7man cons, or at least not with the combat bonuses on top of the extra man) And "balance" would be in a much better state.

but they did nerf volks, volks wer so good because they could outnumber and could swarm your enemy. But the balance team made the same mistake relics been making for years which is nerfing unit A (volks) and then buffing unit B (Rifles) making the imbalance flip to the other side.

One other reason why ost, especially grens struggle vs USF is also due to the performance of the pack howie, it boggles my mind how this unit hasnt been addressed in this patch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMAFIdpxAOk

grens are ok.
their lmg42 not good for 60muni

but if you play combined arms as you should. see above tightrope cast, they work!
isnt butcher one of us, who keeps complaining about Ost nerfs. Looks like he needed to be carried by sturmpanther, someone who never whines about Ost.

hmmm...

Grens are fine, its just a l2p issue. OST is the most complete faction in the game, they have everything a faction can possibly dream of having, soviet closest to OST in completeness lacks bunkers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMAFIdpxAOk

grens are ok.
their lmg42 not good for 60muni

but if you play combined arms as you should. see above tightrope cast, they work!
isnt butcher one of us, who keeps complaining about Ost nerfs. Looks like he needed to be carried by sturmpanther, someone who never whines about Ost.

hmmm...

Butcher was flanked by Toyvendor multiple times and had 400 muni worth of bombs dropped on him at one point. A lot of players would have buckled under that sort of pressure.

Grens are fine, its just a l2p issue. OST is the most complete faction in the game, they have everything a faction can possibly dream of having, soviet closest to OST in completeness lacks bunkers.

U mean like

60 range TD

relible mainline inf

Light tank

supreme call in inf

mobile heavy arty

forward retreat point



if this looks familiar to u ... well this is the current meta and u see this in every game 2v2+

how does compating tommies to grens even have sense.
Tommies have trenches and sandbags grens dont
tommies are 5 men grens are not
tommies get arty or smoke grens dont
tommies get ultra good and cheap healing grens dont
tommies are cheaper to reinforce
tommies dont require munnition upgrade to be good grens do need mg42
tommies dont need tech grens do
on top of that you get one IS for free so you have it earlier, and naturally you have them faster and more
AND on top of that count every upperhand that brits have over ost/axis
maybe Ill list them
cheapest teching in game
(nearly) no munnies needed for upgrading units or healing
AEC that is nondoc puma which comes at 6min mark to counter any LV, has stun round and performs fairly well vs MVs
Valentine for 80 fuel that gives insane momentum, antiinf and antitank performence
110 fuel cromwell which is better than p4, has better mg without any munnitions cost and smoke round (wtf?!)
comet that is better than panther, far better antiinf performence and phosphorus round (wtf?!)
brits can countersnipe
strongest mainline
5men pgren squad (assofficer)

U mean like

60 range TD

relible mainline inf

Light tank

supreme call in inf

mobile heavy arty

forward retreat point



if this looks familiar to u ... well this is the current meta and u see this in every game 2v2+

you just stated the game design yes these factions are meant to be different but get this,

60 range TD can be countered with paks (with stun! almost a killing ability this)

Brummbar, literally better AI than any US unit I guess the ISU-152 has the same AI stats as Brum in allied forces.

T0 best mg in the game.

Sniper.

grens are reliable too now, 240 mp free rifle nade and faust, 28 mp reinforce, forward med kit healing, can make bunker are good at long range, fast capture!. And you also have pzgren with nuke nade and pretty good RA and TS.

PZwrfr best AI ranged vehicle.

OST has a 70 range 300 dmg call in vehicle, M4 sherman and M36 have an hp of 640.

Pershing vs Tiger.

And again supreme call in inf can be beaten by bleeding them out with snipers and mgs.

Ive said for years grens should get explosive resistance with vet. I think modders said that's not possible, but the damage reduction was a good move

Maybe they should still get some RA bonus with vet, just a much smaller one? I don't think they need much

you just stated the game design yes these factions are meant to be different but get this,

60 range TD can be countered with paks (with stun! almost a killing ability this)

Brummbar, literally better AI than any US unit I guess the ISU-152 has the same AI stats as Brum in allied forces.

T0 best mg in the game.

Sniper.

grens are reliable too now, 240 mp free rifle nade and faust, 28 mp reinforce, forward med kit healing, can make bunker are good at long range, fast capture!. And you also have pzgren with nuke nade and pretty good RA and TS.

PZwrfr best AI ranged vehicle.

OST has a 70 range 300 dmg call in vehicle, M4 sherman and M36 have an hp of 640.

Pershing vs Tiger.

And again supreme call in inf can be beaten by bleeding them out with snipers and mgs.

it looks like you are 4v4 player

Ive said for years grens should get explosive resistance with vet. I think modders said that's not possible, but the damage reduction was a good move

Maybe they should still get some RA bonus with vet, just a much smaller one? I don't think they need much

I agree. Even leveling out their rec acc buffs that they already have to come at at vet 1 as well like they did with both cons and pgrens would help as it's proven to do with both cons and pgrens.

I agree. Even leveling out their rec acc buffs that they already have to come at at vet 1 as well like they did with both cons and pgrens would help as it's proven to do with both cons and pgrens.

Well that's the thing they don't have any RA buffs at all anymore. They swapped out the RA for damage modifier completely if I'm not mistaken

They still start at .91 by default, but they still have .91 at vet 3 i believe

it looks like you are 4v4 player

He mentioned 2v2+ so I guess I had to respect him and talk in that manner? Right?

Reduce medic bunkers down to 30, LMG-42 upgrade to 50 and that'll solve your problem.

Guys will still likely opt Pgrens because of the Stgs though.

Why couldn't Grens get an Stg upgrade after all Tiers are built? Make *that* 60 muni.

Well that's the thing they don't have any RA buffs at all anymore. They swapped out the RA for damage modifier completely if I'm not mistaken

They still start at .91 by default, but they still have .91 at vet 3 i believe

Right. Well. Seems like a solid step 1 then