The Obersoldaten lmg34 has a better on the move dps ratio(60%) then most other infantry small arms-hell, it has a better damage ratio than obersoldaten bolt actions. I consider this to be problematic given how high the base damage output is to begin with and what I perceive to be lmg34 ober's role.
When compared to the on the move MG stats of other infantry, commando brens have ~42% on the move dps, and paratrooper m1919s a measly ~18%. Now with the commandos it makes sense given their role as mobile ambush infantry but the obersoldaten are long range specialists. I do not see why they should be able to chase down other squads so easily.
I dont know exactly where the MG34(on the move) damage ratio should sit, but I'd say bringing it down to ~40%(on the move) would be a start.
Edit: As far as I'm concerned, the ability to fire an LMG on the move is already a big enough boon, they dont need to excel at it too.
Obersoldaten MG34 on the move
14 Apr 2020, 14:42 PM
#1
Posts: 783
14 Apr 2020, 14:58 PM
#2
Posts: 556
Their each squad member cost whopping 40MP to reinforce on top of the upgrade being 80muni. They are fine as they are IMO.
Grens are finally good.
14 Apr 2020, 15:02 PM
#3
Posts: 783
Their each squad member cost whopping 40MP to reinforce on top of the upgrade being 80muni. They are fine as they are IMO.
I get they are expensive and their base stats are consistent with this. But the ability to fire their MG on the move with without a more substantial dps penalty goes against their long range semi static anti infantry role.
14 Apr 2020, 15:04 PM
#4
Posts: 956
I suppose I should have seen this coming after so openly reminiscing about my adventures with LMG obers in the forum and chat.....
They're still a 4 man squad and not supermen even with 0.7 RA as standard. They arrive at a time that most factions have vet II/III inf squads and are expected to fight that. Death is a most effective dps penalty.
The LMG is actually worse the closer the target is, so you really want to keep the squad behind cover and picking off models afar. Moving towards them is actually a bad idea.
They're still a 4 man squad and not supermen even with 0.7 RA as standard. They arrive at a time that most factions have vet II/III inf squads and are expected to fight that. Death is a most effective dps penalty.
The LMG is actually worse the closer the target is, so you really want to keep the squad behind cover and picking off models afar. Moving towards them is actually a bad idea.
For Italy! We have outfoxed the enemy once more!
14 Apr 2020, 15:07 PM
#5
Posts: 783
I suppose I should have seen this coming after so openly reminiscing about my adventures with LMG obers in the forum and chat.....
They're still a 4 man squad and not supermen even with 0.7 RA as standard. The LMG is actually worse the closer the target is, so you really want to keep the squad behind cover and picking off models afar.
I understand the role. And I think the damage output when standing still is fine. I just dont like the fact that obers can MOVE while retaining so much dps.
For the record, this is something I've been meaning to post for some time now but I've been on the fence about if Obers being "uber" elite makes it acceptable.
14 Apr 2020, 15:08 PM
#6
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
When compared to the on the move MG stats of other infantry, commando brens have ~42% on the move dps, and paratroopers a measly ~18%.
These numbers are not correct because the amount of weapons between the squads varies (Paras have 2x LMGs). For example at max range Paratroopers as a squad go from 25,4 to 9,7, which is 38% and not 18%.
14 Apr 2020, 15:10 PM
#7
Posts: 783
These numbers are not correct because the amount of weapons between the squads varies (Paras have 2x LMGs). For example at max range Paratroopers as a squad go from 25,4 to 9,7, which is 38% and not 18.
I was referring specifically to the LMG dps and not the dps of the squad as a whole which still favors obers anyway.
I'll edit to clarify though.
14 Apr 2020, 15:13 PM
#8
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
It also almost exclusively matters at max range, because at 20 range for example Obersoldaten as a squad have ~55% DPS on the move while LMG Paratroopers as a squad have ~45%.
Now obviously the difference goes up in favour of the Obers as more models drop, but they need to have an advantage for being a 4 men squad.
Now obviously the difference goes up in favour of the Obers as more models drop, but they need to have an advantage for being a 4 men squad.
14 Apr 2020, 15:20 PM
#9
Posts: 783
It also almost exclusively matters at max range, because at 20 range for example Obersoldaten as a squad have ~55% DPS on the move while LMG Paratroopers as a squad have ~45%.
Now obviously the difference goes up in favour of the Obers as more models drop, but they need to have an advantage for being a 4 men squad.
I thought their advantage was their impressive RA, and concentrated high damage output. I just dont feel like they need to have excellent mobile LMG damage output as well. The IR stgs give them that.
14 Apr 2020, 15:23 PM
#10
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
I thought their advantage was their impressive RA
RA does not help against AOE weapons. A 4 men squad is significantly less durable against tanks and mortars or other indirect fire compared to a 6 men squad. Which hurts Obers a lot. They need to have remarkable DPS to compensate this.
14 Apr 2020, 15:25 PM
#11
Posts: 956
I thought their advantage was their impressive RA, and concentrated high damage output. I just dont feel like they need to have excellent mobile LMG damage output as well. The IR stgs give them that.
I think they have 0.7 RA because they'll be fighting squads with +30 or even +40% accuracy due to vet. Sending a 1.0 RA squad against that is just....memeworthy. Take a vet 0 volks squad against vet 3 Rifleman for example. The mobile LMG dps is only good for chasing people walking away imho like that weapons/AT team.
Hey Sander, do the Obers still get bonus acc vs retreating units?
For Italy! We have outfoxed the enemy once more!
14 Apr 2020, 15:30 PM
#12
Posts: 783
RA does not help against AOE weapons. A 4 men squad is significantly less durable against tanks and mortars or other indirect fire compared to a 6 men squad. Which hurts Obers a lot. They need to have remarkable DPS to compensate this.
If their damage isnt good enough, their static damage output should be buffed instead of keeping their mobile damage so high.
14 Apr 2020, 15:35 PM
#13
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
If you want to compare damage on the move do so of the whole squad at close/mid/far.
Comparing percentages of drop of a single weapon at single range can be misleading.
Finally Ober are probably better of standing still instead chasing a retreating squad.
Comparing percentages of drop of a single weapon at single range can be misleading.
Finally Ober are probably better of standing still instead chasing a retreating squad.
14 Apr 2020, 15:42 PM
#14
Posts: 833
Hey Sander, do the Obers still get bonus acc vs retreating units?
I believe this was removed during the first six months of WFA release. Their LMG's were free back then too.
I don't know who at relic thought that was a good idea, but lets take comfort in the fact there's a community team in charge of balance now.
Let's unite the CoH2 community and make sure racism is
14 Apr 2020, 15:52 PM
#15
Posts: 956
I believe this was removed during the first six months of WFA release. Their LMG's were free back then too.
I don't know who at relic thought that was a good idea, but lets take comfort in the fact there's a community team in charge of balance now.
Okay thanks.
Speaking of changes, I will admit to wishing the Suppresskubel to return...but alas such a dream will remain as such.
For Italy! We have outfoxed the enemy once more!
14 Apr 2020, 16:31 PM
#16
Posts: 783
If you want to compare damage on the move do so of the whole squad at close/mid/far.
Comparing percentages of drop of a single weapon at single range can be misleading.
Finally Ober are probably better of standing still instead chasing a retreating squad.
Damages are at ranges 0/10/20/30
Top number is static dps, middle is moving dps, bottom is damage ratio.
Percentages rounded to nearest tenth of a percent.
Ober
32.406 29.684 28.617 26.891
17.05 16.672 15.882 15.844
52.6% 56.2% 55.5% 58.9%
Para
52.194 39.436 29.37 26.546
25.356 19.61 13.33 10.656
48.6% 49.7% 45.4% 40.1%
Comm
54.747 58.611 24.462 23.483
26.665 28.443 10.951 11.506
48.7% 48.5% 44.8% 48%
Naturally paras and commandos have substantially higher dps at point blank range both on the move and standing still. Commandos retain this edge up to range 10 but sharply drop off after that(in both static and mobile dps) while para DPS starts to drop at around range 4 due to the carbine weapon profile.
Obers are better at chasing and in fact, Tightrope did a video on this already.
Ober testing is around 7:30.
I don't have an issue with ober static damage output, I just think as long range LMG equipped squad, they should be LESS effective when chasing, not more.
14 Apr 2020, 16:33 PM
#17
Posts: 500
It's the most expensive infantry unit in the game, come on now. They already don't perform very well considering what they cost
14 Apr 2020, 16:38 PM
#18
Posts: 214
It's the most expensive infantry unit in the game, come on now. They already don't perform very well considering what they cost
And that they come late,
and that they are 4,
And that they get fucked by vehicles
14 Apr 2020, 17:14 PM
#19
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
As others said, don't just take at what the LMG34 on it's own is doing but the whole squad.
Obers are fine for how late they arrive.
Obers are fine for how late they arrive.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
14 Apr 2020, 17:20 PM
#20
Posts: 3053
RA does not help against AOE weapons. A 4 men squad is significantly less durable against tanks and mortars or other indirect fire compared to a 6 men squad. Which hurts Obers a lot. They need to have remarkable DPS to compensate this.
Which they do. But do they need to rival semi-auto rifles in moving DPS at max range? Because that's the issue I see with this. If obers are in range and chasing, they're shredding you no matter where they are, like an SMG squad would but at 35 range.
They also literally get an ability with vet that lets them suppress. If that's not stand out infantry capability, I'm not sure what would be.
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Last Friday, 12:42 PM
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01 Apr 2025, 20:29 PM
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Lady Xenarra: Does anyone else think that USF needs buffs? It feels like they’re on life support sometimes
01 Apr 2025, 02:36 AM
01 Apr 2025, 02:36 AM
Willy Pete: @Rosbone Ahh I missed that memo. I still think its a bad decision though. Adds frustration for players and isnt gonna make them that much money
27 Mar 2025, 15:46 PM
27 Mar 2025, 15:46 PM
Rosbone: It is also good they left it free until after the free to play weekend. Points for that.
27 Mar 2025, 09:34 AM
27 Mar 2025, 09:34 AM
Rosbone: But I agree, the cost to get a full decent Coh game pushing $115 US is not the best idea. Especially when it needs so much more work for casuals.
27 Mar 2025, 09:32 AM
27 Mar 2025, 09:32 AM
Rosbone: To be fair, it was a thank you to early fans right? They said it was not free for long and it would become a pay DLC at some point.
27 Mar 2025, 09:30 AM
27 Mar 2025, 09:30 AM
Willy Pete: Re-releasing free DLC so they can charge new players money for it. Brilliant marketing strategy 
27 Mar 2025, 04:31 AM
27 Mar 2025, 04:31 AM
Rosbone: Congrats to Relic. Looks like Coh3 has finally usurped Coh2 s the popular Coh. You smell terrific. 
.
24 Mar 2025, 02:46 AM
.24 Mar 2025, 02:46 AM
Nickbn: and again someone else replies. I mean come on guys. Give @adamírcz a chance
22 Mar 2025, 14:00 PM
22 Mar 2025, 14:00 PM
Nickbn: @Rosbone it's incredibly rude to speak on someone elses behalf, especially when a question is directly adressed to them. I understand your passion for the subject at hand but I want to hear from him.
20 Mar 2025, 10:16 AM
20 Mar 2025, 10:16 AM
Rosbone: @Nickbn No, I am just saying people should not be using any Relic owned forum since they have proven they ban anyone who says true things about Coh3.
18 Mar 2025, 19:01 PM
18 Mar 2025, 19:01 PM
Nickbn: @Rosbone do you speak on his behalf? I didn't know. In that case keep us updated please.
18 Mar 2025, 16:47 PM
18 Mar 2025, 16:47 PM
Rosbone: @Nickbn True except, the only people on the Relic Discord/Reddit/Steam are brain washed monkey zealots. They wont even understand what @adamírcz is talking about. Anyone else is banned.
16 Mar 2025, 17:54 PM
16 Mar 2025, 17:54 PM
Nickbn: @adamírcz might be a better idea to voice this to relic directly than to voice it here, in a shoutbox of a nearly deade fansite #justsaying...
16 Mar 2025, 16:36 PM
16 Mar 2025, 16:36 PM
adamírcz: So, I just got a leaver penalty without even getting onto the loading screen because of the game disconnecting, bravo Relic
14 Mar 2025, 10:45 AM
14 Mar 2025, 10:45 AM
Rosbone: It is an indicator of the very short sighted capitalist view that plagues any company where leadership does not understand the product.
13 Mar 2025, 20:00 PM
13 Mar 2025, 20:00 PM
Rosbone: They dont care about Coh3 or Coh in general. They are just trying to grab cash by ripping off the small user base they have.
13 Mar 2025, 19:58 PM
13 Mar 2025, 19:58 PM
Rosbone: It is clear they crapped out an unfinished game. And are now barely supporting it as they make new smaller games. Coh3 is stillborn. It will be meh for at least another 2-4 years. Meaning they killed the whole franchise instead of growing it.
13 Mar 2025, 19:56 PM
13 Mar 2025, 19:56 PM
Rosbone: If I did play coh3 and was mainly a skirmish player, I would be pissed and probably stop playing. And it has been like this since release. Why? I would not tell my friends to buy a game I am not even playing. Lost sales and angered users.
13 Mar 2025, 19:53 PM
13 Mar 2025, 19:53 PM
Rosbone: I am just saddened how Relic keeps hurting themselves by not fixing 5 minute things like menus. Why anger users with stuff that could be fixed in minutes???
13 Mar 2025, 19:50 PM
13 Mar 2025, 19:50 PM
Rosbone: I was wondering why people think I was raging. I think it was when I said "because coh3 sucks so bad". That was not my opinion. Just a general feel from top players/streamers. I dont play Coh3 and have NO opinion of it.
13 Mar 2025, 19:48 PM
13 Mar 2025, 19:48 PM
OKSpitfire: You can rage as often as you like btw, you usually manage to make it pretty funny.
12 Mar 2025, 11:18 AM
12 Mar 2025, 11:18 AM
Rosbone: So it was a systemic failure across multiple disciplines and check points.
12 Mar 2025, 04:30 AM
12 Mar 2025, 04:30 AM
Rosbone: Knowing how companies work, I imagine a new hire making the menus. The API they are using is complicated and things were hard to figure out. But at some point QA or management should have addressed these things. Usually within 6 months of starting.
12 Mar 2025, 04:29 AM
12 Mar 2025, 04:29 AM
Rosbone: @theekvn I dont hate Coh3 or Relic. I just dont understand how you work on Coh3 for like 7 years and the menu system is worse than if a Programming 101 student made it. Feel free to explain it to me.
12 Mar 2025, 04:07 AM
12 Mar 2025, 04:07 AM
theekvn: KT just need fuel debuf from 15% to 50%, Ele arc of fire- aim time improve and they are good to go
12 Mar 2025, 03:59 AM
12 Mar 2025, 03:59 AM
theekvn: and please Rosbone,I know you hate Coh3 to the bone due to your drama with relic, Still, Can you give a proper point of view instead of raging ?.
12 Mar 2025, 03:54 AM
12 Mar 2025, 03:54 AM
KoRneY: @aerafield It's possible that it is underpriced for what it is capable of now, no need to go full retard and take it immediately as a massive problem. It costs 60 more MP than a pz.3 and in 2v2 the barrage can be quite strong.
07 Mar 2025, 19:14 PM
07 Mar 2025, 19:14 PM
OKSpitfire: I do like that they made the Stuka more expensive instead of nerfing it into the ground though. Found it pretty unsatisfying to use before that buff a while back....
06 Mar 2025, 16:35 PM
06 Mar 2025, 16:35 PM
aerafield: USF already is by far the shittiest faction in terms of countering blobbing and turtling, now they supposedly have one overtuned tool locked behind a BG and it's immediately a massive problem?
06 Mar 2025, 13:33 PM
06 Mar 2025, 13:33 PM
Lady Xenarra: I think post-2.0 Whizbang buffs, the price is too low esp since the Stuka got nerfed in cost too. Speaking of which, how exactly is one supposed to successfully dive this Sherman in disguise? Med tank spam running into SSFs?
06 Mar 2025, 12:13 PM
06 Mar 2025, 12:13 PM
OKSpitfire: A powerful, doctrinal unit that outperforms stock stuff? Colour me shocked! 
06 Mar 2025, 10:49 AM
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Lady Xenarra: WTB Whizzbang for DAK instead of Stuka, 5 fuel cheape, 60MP more expensive and next to impossible to dive. 
05 Mar 2025, 20:27 PM
05 Mar 2025, 20:27 PM
Rosbone: It is also hard to expect Relic to help Coh2 when they cant even make working menus in Coh3 yet, 2 years after release and at full price+ for DLCs. Thats like asking a fish to do calculus.
04 Mar 2025, 02:58 AM
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Rosbone: But this last patch has made good progress for grabbing players. All we can hope is Coh3 gets to Coh2s quality level before everyone abandons the franchise. Its Relic so they will completely f*%k it up as usual. But its a hope/cope.
04 Mar 2025, 02:55 AM
04 Mar 2025, 02:55 AM
Rosbone: Relic wants Coh2 to fail so players will migrate to Coh3. It is hard to blame them since Coh3 sucks so bad. It needs all the help it can get.
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