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Tiger nerf

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Jilet
11 Apr 2020, 14:17 PM
#21
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jump backJump back to quoted post11 Apr 2020, 14:03 PMKatitof

Tiger was capable of beating IS-2 even before armor nerf and was much more oppressive against infantry with longer base range, faster RoF and scatter reduction vet on top of already low scatter and large AoE.

Tiger was dominant, because it was batshit insane.


All of those are correct I agree. But they are not giving the full picture because this is simply a 1v1 comparison and not a faction comparison. Both OKW and OST has nothing better than their AT guns to counter the IS-2 compared to super effective SU-85. Thus even Tiger was better on paper it was overshadowed by IS-2 IMO.

(I know StuG and JP4 exists but they either lack the range or penetration or both)
Grens are finally good.
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Jilet
11 Apr 2020, 14:19 PM
#22
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jump backJump back to quoted post11 Apr 2020, 14:16 PMDomine



Add to that, if the Tiger was so oppressive, how comes Pershing, with it's higher anti infantry performance, coupled with better infantry support, was not? A big think moment indeed...


Actually i would take OST support weapons any day any time. But still..
Grens are finally good.
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Katitof
11 Apr 2020, 14:31 PM
#23
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jump backJump back to quoted post11 Apr 2020, 14:16 PMDomine



Add to that, if the Tiger was so oppressive, how comes Pershing, with it's higher anti infantry performance, coupled with better infantry support, was not? A big think moment indeed...

If you were reading patch notes you wouldn't have to sweat these two poor neurons as everything was explained there.

And before you overheat:

Its because pershing is still least durable one, doesn't have amazing AT like tiger and is supposed to be best against infantry out of generalist limited heavies.
jump backJump back to quoted post11 Apr 2020, 14:17 PMJilet


All of those are correct I agree. But they are not giving the full picture because this is simply a 1v1 comparison and not a faction comparison. Both OKW and OST has nothing better than their AT guns to counter the IS-2 compared to super effective SU-85. Thus even Tiger was better on paper it was overshadowed by IS-2 IMO.

(I know StuG and JP4 exists but they either lack the range or penetration or both)

I must've missed the change where they have removed panthers from the game, could you point it out to me?
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Jilet
11 Apr 2020, 14:36 PM
#24
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Posts: 556

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Apr 2020, 14:31 PMKatitof

I must've missed the change where they have removed panthers from the game, could you point it out to me?



That is exactly my point. You are losing the economy battle here. Patnher exists, yes. But it trades HP with range.(Thats okay too.) But it costs 185 fuel and eats 18 pop which is a massive investment and also will get countered by the SU-85s range. I agree it counters IS-2 but "softly".
Grens are finally good.
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Domine
11 Apr 2020, 14:49 PM
#25
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jump backJump back to quoted post11 Apr 2020, 14:36 PMJilet



That is exactly my point. You are losing the economy battle here. Patnher exists, yes. But it trades HP with range.(Thats okay too.) But it costs 185 fuel and eats 18 pop which is a massive investment and also will get countered by the SU-85s range. I agree it counters IS-2 but "softly".


The Panther has neither the range, nor penetration, nor the DPS to counter an IS 2. The IS 2 counters the Panther, and not the other way around.


I also highly advise you to ignore the resident retard
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Katitof
11 Apr 2020, 14:54 PM
#26
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jump backJump back to quoted post11 Apr 2020, 14:49 PMDomine


The Panther has neither the range, nor penetration, nor the DPS to counter an IS 2. The IS 2 counters the Panther, and not the other way around.

Except it does and you're full of it.
Harder to do when there is SU-85, but if there is, you also should have something more then just a single panther fighting against twice the investment in resources.

I also highly advise you to ignore the resident retard

I have to commend you for this level of self awareness.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Princeps
11 Apr 2020, 15:20 PM
#27
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jump backJump back to quoted post11 Apr 2020, 14:54 PMKatitof

Except it does and you're full of it.
Harder to do when there is SU-85, but if there is, you also should have something more then just a single panther fighting against twice the investment in resources.


I have to commend you for this level of self awareness.


Panther counters IS2... dude u rly have to play some games ... but its always funny to read ur stories:lolol:
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ShadowLinkX37
11 Apr 2020, 17:19 PM
#30
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I think a large part of the issue was those tests were run on a bugged tiger AoE model instead of the one was the supposed to be implemented in the previous patch. The tiger overperformed heavily because its gun was far stronger than it should have been. Then without extensive testing to see how the tiger should have performed, gave it not 1, but 2 (3 in the case of OKW tiger) additional nerfs to the tiger ontop of further lowering its AoE that had barely been tested.
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Musmula
11 Apr 2020, 18:48 PM
#31
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Posts: 56

Yeaaah well 4 pzgren with panzerschrecks killed 8 of my firefly tanks. Cry me a river... Boohoo my one unit to rule them all is gone.
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Fire and Terror
11 Apr 2020, 19:34 PM
#32
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Posts: 306

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Apr 2020, 15:20 PMPrinceps


Panther counters IS2... dude u rly have to play some games ... but its always funny to read ur stories:lolol:


panther has 10 more range and can pen the is2 better since armor nerf, so yes it counters is2 as long at its not vet 2
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Protos Angelus
11 Apr 2020, 20:04 PM
#33
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jump backJump back to quoted post11 Apr 2020, 19:34 PMFire and Terror


panther has 10 more range and can pen the is2 better since armor nerf, so yes it counters is2 as long at its not vet 2


Panther is also more agile and has Blitz. You can easily punish IS2 pushes with Panther.
Don't know about Tigers since I haven't played them, but to me, the biggest loser heavy is Pershing currently and biggest winner KT. Pershing can't wipe or reliably damage squads anymore, whilst having 270 armour and 960 HP, higher cost (costs more, while having poor survivability). Biggest winner is KT because of it's massive armour and health.
Again, call in heavies I played so far were KT and Pershing so I only speak from that experience. Played against KT, Pershing, Tiger and Churchill and I had least troubles against Pershing. Tiger was still A BIT harder to played against than Pershing.

I think the heavies should have gotten a CP nerf to punish fuel hoarding and acquire them later on (where you can't just rush them to enemy base)
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CODGUY
11 Apr 2020, 21:39 PM
#34
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Posts: 888

The Tiger is in a better state than the Pershing. Pershing got effectively deleted.
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Outsider_Sidaroth
11 Apr 2020, 23:03 PM
#35
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Oh No!
The game is no longer historically accurate!
RIP Tiger.
Kappaccino.
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Katitof
11 Apr 2020, 23:46 PM
#36
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Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

I would also like to point out that IS-2 and Pershing got equal AoE nerfs, yet its exclusively Mannstein bois who cry over the change.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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IncendiaryRounds:)
12 Apr 2020, 00:53 AM
#37
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Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned
IS2 still wiping squads left and right despite nerfs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFu6XnP6ObY&t=1636s

And no, anyone whose played with or against me knows I don't have a single Tiger doctrine on loadout when it was OP, so I don't care if Tiger is nerfed to the ground, but I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF IT WAS nerfed to the ground cuz that's what bal team likes to do.
"I wish THQ was still alive and made CoH2. Ostheer for life."

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BlueKnight
12 Apr 2020, 00:59 AM
#38
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Posts: 320

Stop this nonsense thread. Heavies are still more than good, all of them, so just stop.
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SkysTheLimit
12 Apr 2020, 01:28 AM
#39
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jump backJump back to quoted post11 Apr 2020, 14:16 PMDomine

Add to that, if the Tiger was so oppressive, how comes Pershing, with it's higher anti infantry performance, coupled with better infantry support, was not? A big think moment indeed...


Less armor and health might have something to do with it...
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MMX
12 Apr 2020, 03:41 AM
#40
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jump backJump back to quoted post12 Apr 2020, 00:59 AMBlueKnight
Stop this nonsense thread. Heavies are still more than good, all of them, so just stop.


/thread
||| ScatterThis! - Tank AI calculation made easy ||| CoH2 Pen Calc - Tank vs tank... who wins against who and by what margin? |||
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