Are the patches making this game progressively worse?

And to follow up with the post above, if you're mainly a 4v4 player and you impose your opinions of game balance, kindly remove yourself from these forums, and GO FUCK YOURSELF. 4v4 players aren't playing Company of Heroes 2, they're playing Blob Wars 2. Tactics include blobbing, arty spam, and double and even triple teaming and getting wipes by sheer brutality of the gangbanging of one player. That isn't skill. In smaller game modes, you get wipes by superior positioning and deft movement on retreat paths without relying on an ally to blob the retreat path. If u truly cared about balance, you'd spent most of your time playing 1v1 and 2v2.

Patches improve the game constantly. There are problems with the processes thou.

Many times band aid solution are used and they keep pilling in so when a "real" solution comes there is a stockpile of band aids than are no being removed.

Classical example is the WC51 that got a tone of buff because it was taking up commander slot on its own. Then it was "fixed" into "mechanized group" and now you have a single ability that gives access to: 2 transport vehicles, mark target and an off map making other HT call ins look pale by comparison.


Imo there should a number of patches the focus on fixing this "lower priority" and increase the consistency of behavior across units, abilities and commanders.

I think they have just lacked focus with the last couple patches and I think the mark was really missed with this one. The issue is they are trying to balance all game modes when that isn't possible with so few people working on these patches. They are trying to make everybody happy and are making no-one happy in the process. Either strictly come out a balance the game for a certain set of game modes or honestly stop patching the game at this point because it seems like while certain problems get fixed, new and old problems are returning again. 1 step forward, two steps back, which is disheartening because I know these guys are putting in work for free but I think they need more help and we need far more testing ahead of time.

The bal team seems like they've never heard of quality control because even Tightrope does much more rigorous testing (in just a 40 min video testing the entire patch) than the bal team themselves.

You do realise that Tightrope is actually on the balance team, right?

the balance team is doing a great job even though they removed most of the cancer from the game

In general, yes. Since the start of the game, a ton of game mechanics has been removed, and fractions have become more clones of each other. What made the game much more boring and primitive.
What made me laugh in the current patch - the Soviet paratroopers - has been discussed for a long time and many agreed - their way of appearing on the map does not correspond to their role. And just to give them a camouflage or sabotage ability or something else to rework. They were made a little cheaper and now they put a check in the list - the paratroopers are fixed. But they are not fixed and their appearance from the building is still meaningless.

And to follow up with the post above, if you're mainly a 4v4 player and you impose your opinions of game balance, kindly remove yourself from these forums, and GO FUCK YOURSELF.

This thread has reached peak maturity.

And to follow up with the post above, if you're mainly a 4v4 player and you impose your opinions of game balance, kindly remove yourself from these forums, and GO FUCK YOURSELF. 4v4 players aren't playing Company of Heroes 2, they're playing Blob Wars 2. Tactics include blobbing, arty spam, and double and even triple teaming and getting wipes by sheer brutality of the gangbanging of one player. That isn't skill. In smaller game modes, you get wipes by superior positioning and deft movement on retreat paths without relying on an ally to blob the retreat path. If u truly cared about balance, you'd spent most of your time playing 1v1 and 2v2.

While agree with the idea game should be balanced first around the smaller game modes, you dont have to be a jerk like that.

Balancing should be focused on 4v4 and 3v3. If you balance that, the ripple effect, going down to 1v1 through 2v2 is much weaker than a ripple effect of focusing balance on 1v1 and then having 4 tiger Ace's in 4v4 games.
What I'm saying is, it's much easier to reogranize the tactics for 1v1, than 3v3 or 4v4. Much easier adaption going downstream, than upstream, mainly because there are lot less units on the field (eg. heavies cost a lot of pop cap so you can't have arty, Pershing, 4 rifleman, Anti Tank, etc all at the same time)

I do like that the game is still being patched. However, the balance team is not exempt from criticism just because they take time to do stuff on this game. I also agree about the "band-aid" business and meta-shifting. It's a bad balance policy. I would only hope that the devs/balance team converses more through this forum or the official one. Don't know how many posts the devs read or if they read them at all. Also, there will always be bias, even in the best balance team. If the balance team has 2 main axis players and 2 main allies players, people will subconsciously try to buff their favourite units and keep the nerfs minimal. That's normal and humane, it's up to the community as a whole to propose good solutions that balance the whole spectrum out.

And to follow up with the post above, if you're mainly a 4v4 player and you impose your opinions of game balance, kindly remove yourself from these forums, and GO FUCK YOURSELF. 4v4 players aren't playing Company of Heroes 2

Sorry princess but without 4vs4 Chads there would be no patch and CoH2 would have been left to grow dust like DoW3 a while back.

Be thankful for us, 4vs4 saved the playerbase.

They may have fixed brits but now ostheer is more or less a dead faction. They nerfed the tiger which was the only reasonable way to consistently win with ostheer since they have no builds that will give you mapcontrol compared to the soviets. So the only way to win was to stall the game and wait for the Tiger to save you... now that strategy is gone and with it the entire faction will never be played at a high level again because the dev team gave nothing to compensate for it and no cheaper gren reinforce at T4 isn't gonna win you the game.

WHAT A FUCKING JOKE!!!!

Mate your attitude is a joke. Stop screaming into your keyboard and try actually communicating with the humans on the other side of the monitors.

You actually did make one valid point though. The balance team is not a team of professional game programmers / designers. Neither am I, but as someone who does actually manage projects in a tech company, I can say that two things are missing - quality control, and an overall strategy or goal.

You can see the evidence for this in things like, introducing a new unit but the call-in image and text is broken (could have been caught instantly in the first play-test), or breaking single-player. Or making changes, then reverting them back the opposite way next patch... then re-reverting them... then re-re-re... (see: Heavy Tanks, UKF Tommies).

People complained about Relic imposing a "scope", but they did that because they're pros, they know you can't change everything at once. You need to understand that every change is related to every other unit in every army, and have a philosophy for each army style or what ideal gameplay should look like, then tune things towards those specific goals. Not just nerf everything that's currently popular and buff everything that isn't, or "fill gaps" until every army looks the same.

For example, Wehr and Sov have a beautiful base design. The new armies had some cool ideas - USF has multi-purpose infantry, without support tools. OKW have fewer units, but they're super elite. UKF can hold the line and fight at long-range, they have some powerful units but also many gaps. What do we have now? USF got a mortar, OKW became the spammiest faction, UKF got literally everything unique removed and got everything else turned into Wehr lite - this patch they even just got their own AssGrens and a T2 PanzerGrenadier!

Not saying these decisions are bad, some of the base armies may have been super hard to balance otherwise. But I would certainly like to hear more from the balance team on what their strategy is or what their goals are.

... anyway, like I said before I still appreciate the balance team's work and 98% of people complaining couldn't do a better job (including me ). So THANK YOU.

Be thankful for us, 4vs4 saved the playerbase.

If there was no 4v4 people would be playing 3v3. If there was no 3v3 either then they’d be playing 2v2. Of course there would always be a more casual game mode, developers aren’t stupid.

In most games the casual audience is larger, coh2 isn’t special in this regard.

They may have fixed brits but now ostheer is more or less a dead faction. They nerfed the tiger which was the only reasonable way to consistently win with ostheer since they have no builds that will give you mapcontrol compared to the soviets. So the only way to win was to stall the game and wait for the Tiger to save you... now that strategy is gone and with it the entire faction will never be played at a high level again because the dev team gave nothing to compensate for it and no cheaper gren reinforce at T4 isn't gonna win you the game.

All this crying about tiger but people seem to forget Ost have the largest commander roster. Stuff like German Infantry doctrine are even stronger now with the capping speed and reinforcement buff. The likes of twisted tootsy certainly had no issues last patch spanking soviet players with it. And that was without the new T4 buffs.

Lets at least wait a few days to see how the meta pans out before crying that axis are useless shall we?

If there was no 4v4 people would be playing 3v3. If there was no 3v3 either then they’d be playing 2v2. Of course there would always be a more casual game mode, developers aren’t stupid.

In most games the casual audience is larger, coh2 isn’t special in this regard.

And as the largest gamemode it should see it's fair share of balance adjustments. Or have you forgotten pro 4vs4 players play this game too? Certainly I'm sure a few of these "casuals" like sturmpanther or the angry bears would have no issues taking you down in a game.

And as the largest gamemode it should see it's fair share of balance adjustments. Or have you forgotten pro 4vs4 players play this game too? Certainly I'm sure a few of these "casuals" like sturmpanther or the angry bears would have no issues taking you down in a game.

You said the majority plays 4v4 and they keep the game running.

I answered they’re nothing special because every game has a casual mode and if it wasn’t 4v4 it would be 3v3 or 2v2.

You say there are good 4v4 players (?!?)


Top quality arguing with Helpinghansfan once again.

You said the majority plays 4v4 and they keep the game running.

I answered they’re nothing special because every game has a casual mode and if it wasn’t 4v4 it would be 3v3 or 2v2.

You say there are good 4v4 players (?!?)
Top quality arguing with Helpinghansfan once again.

It's not casual at all if it has it's fair share of pros

It's not casual at all if it has it's fair share of pros

Ah yes the competitive 4v4 scene where 50% of the games end before starting because someone dropped.

Or where the top players queue together at the same time to end up on a team and roflstomp noobs.

Or the queue alone and get teammates like the ones on SturmPanther’s video.

Or play a decent game that’s absolute chaos and then start flaming eachother and end up reporting eachother, like that teammate SturmPanther had that made posts here complaining.


Truly a great competitive mode......if every single other mode was deleted.

All this crying about tiger but people seem to forget Ost have the largest commander roster. Stuff like German Infantry doctrine are even stronger now with the capping speed and reinforcement buff. The likes of twisted tootsy certainly had no issues last patch spanking soviet players with it. And that was without the new T4 buffs.

Lets at least wait a few days to see how the meta pans out before crying that axis are useless shall we?


And as the largest gamemode it should see it's fair share of balance adjustments. Or have you forgotten pro 4vs4 players play this game too? Certainly I'm sure a few of these "casuals" like sturmpanther or the angry bears would have no issues taking you down in a game.

lol as if infantry late game is gonna win you the game. Coh2 is all about killing tanks late game.

Ah yes the competitive 4v4 scene where 50% of the games end before starting because someone dropped.

Or where the top players queue together at the same time to end up on a team and roflstomp noobs.

Or the queue alone and get teammates like the ones on SturmPanther’s video.

Or play a decent game that’s absolute chaos and then start flaming eachother and end up reporting eachother, like that teammate SturmPanther had that made posts here complaining.

Truly a great competitive mode......if every single other mode was deleted.

So 1vs1 or 2vs2 is free from toxic players, droppers and flamewars? I don't think so jim.

Maybe you should look back at previous 4vs4 tournements where top 20 1vs1 players were getting their lunch money stolen against well drilled 4vs4 Chads that understood the Commander meta and how different units perform in the larger gamemodes.

Just because it's at times less micro intensive doesn't mean there is less skill involved. You need larger game knowledge and game awareness.

It's not casual at all if it has it's fair share of pros

I wouldn't really call Hans playing with twitch backers is a "fair share of pros", or when other pros do 24h streams and play 4v4 because their brains went into maintenance mode 6 hours ago.

To get to top 20 in 4v4 you have to have 3 friends with stable connection.
For top 10 you need to play at least 3 evenings in a week.
For top 1 you just need have players who are on top 200 level in 2v2.

Its not competitive mode, it never was, it'll never will be, yes, pros play it at times, no they don't do it seriously, outside of Hans, who is a bit too competitive for the mode anyway judging by his reactions there.