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IR 251 Half-track 2014-2020 RIP!

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Rutra5214
11 Apr 2020, 16:47 PM
#41
avatar of Rutra5214

Posts: 31

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Apr 2020, 20:00 PMSander93


All that you're explaining here is how the Kubel is a nice early to mid game unit (when the IR HT doesn't exist) and how the IR HT will be a way better late game recon tool when all that's needed is clear vision of a certain area of the map, like a VP area. Not how one is better than the other.


Well, with a recent nijna buff for kubel (ability range to 80) the only adventage of IR HT is revealing fog of war itself. Kubel camo detection is free, passive and 360 degrees vet 1 ability rather than 15 muni triggered and 30 sec timed and limited in arc, kubel is less pop cap and no fuel cost with only 10 mp more to build. Also kubel doesn't need to set up, it has mg to deal at least some dmg when in danger, kubel is more mobile and has access to veterancy. On the top of this kubel can cap and it's a t0 unit. And both units have same survivability (very similar defence vs small arms and both can eat 2x atgun shot).
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Sander93
11 Apr 2020, 17:00 PM
#42
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jump backJump back to quoted post11 Apr 2020, 16:47 PMRutra5214
the only adventage of IR HT is revealing fog of war itself


Being able to spot enemies at 80 range so your 55/60 range ATG and TDs can fire from max range is a pretty massive advantage. I don't understand why most people seem to be underestimating just how powerful such long line of sight can be in 2v2/3v3/4v4s.
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Rutra5214
11 Apr 2020, 17:01 PM
#43
avatar of Rutra5214

Posts: 31

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Apr 2020, 17:00 PMSander93


Being able to spot enemies at 80 range so your 55/60 range ATG and TDs can fire from max range is a pretty massive advantage. I don't understand why most people seem to be underestimating just how powerful such long line of sight is in 2v2/3v3/4v4s.


But with kubel you can spot atguns too, you just see them in tac map/mini map.
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Sander93
11 Apr 2020, 17:02 PM
#44
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jump backJump back to quoted post11 Apr 2020, 17:01 PMRutra5214
But with kubel you can spot atguns too, you just see them in tac map/mini map.


That's not the point. Kubel detection doesn't allow your ATGs and TDs (or ISGs/mortars) to engage enemy units because it only spots them on the map. The Uhu's 80 sight range does. Which can be a huge advantage in matches that boil down to a fight over 1-2 victory points or other areas. There's a reason most high level games see T-70s or 222/251s with recon mode / spotting scopes being used.
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LoopDloop
11 Apr 2020, 17:02 PM
#45
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Posts: 3053

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Apr 2020, 17:01 PMRutra5214


But with kubel you can spot atguns too, you just see them in tac map/mini map.

Doesn't mean you can fire on them accurately. Artillery and indirect also get big scatter buffs (so they fire more consistently/accurately) when they have sight on their target.
Playercard of LoopDloop

1v1: P2v2: P3v3: P4v4: P
1v1: P2v2: P3v3: P4v4: P
1v1: P2v2: P3v3: P4v4: P
1v1: P2v2: P3v3: P4v4: P


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Rutra5214
11 Apr 2020, 17:05 PM
#46
avatar of Rutra5214

Posts: 31

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Apr 2020, 17:02 PMSander93


That's not the point. Kubel detection doesn't allow your ATGs and TDs (or ISGs/mortars) to engage enemy units because it only spots them on the map. The Uhu's 80 sight range does.


I got the point, but i don't think getting uhu over kubel is much better investition with already pop cap starving okw. And getting intelligence is helpfull to micro your units, you don't need always to see enemy directly to position your mgs, atguns or throw grenades through a high fence.
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TheLaGmAn
11 Apr 2020, 17:06 PM
#47
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Posts: 8

its totally useless now, at least allow it to camo when stationary or change it completly
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Katitof
11 Apr 2020, 17:08 PM
#48
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jump backJump back to quoted post11 Apr 2020, 17:06 PMTheLaGmAn
its totally useless now, at least allow it to camo when stationary or change it completly

A unit with 80 sight range does NOT need any camo.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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TheLaGmAn
11 Apr 2020, 17:12 PM
#49
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Posts: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Apr 2020, 17:08 PMKatitof

A unit with 80 sight range does NOT need any camo.


Okay, keep it at 20 range difference from at guns/td (assuming they dont attack ground) and go back and forth every time with a unit that has a big size, so you can spot, when you can do the same but more effectively with a t70, sniper, jaeger, commandos, etc.

Oh, and lets hope the usf doesnt use the pak howie to shot at it from the distance as well.
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thedarkarmadillo
11 Apr 2020, 18:14 PM
#50
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Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Apr 2020, 17:00 PMSander93


Being able to spot enemies at 80 range so your 55/60 range ATG and TDs can fire from max range is a pretty massive advantage. I don't understand why most people seem to be underestimating just how powerful such long line of sight can be in 2v2/3v3/4v4s.

People always criminally underate utility and vision in this game unfortunately
#stalinwept
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blancat
11 Apr 2020, 18:22 PM
#51
avatar of blancat

Posts: 810

This halftrack became OP now


JT can see the allies tank first and hit first through the IR HT's sight

IR HT need HP nerf or something
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SupremeStefan
11 Apr 2020, 18:50 PM
#52
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1220

Just add it to usf then call it op
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=429076979 <- check my map
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Lady Xenarra
11 Apr 2020, 18:56 PM
#53
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 956

Expect to dig a mass grave for the vehicle crews you're going to lose from replacing this vehicle a half-dozen times. Seeing a real theme with this vehicle in action in my games as OKW....
For Italy! We have outfoxed the enemy once more!
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thedarkarmadillo
11 Apr 2020, 19:00 PM
#54
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Apr 2020, 18:56 PMLady Xenarra
Expect to dig a mass grave for the vehicle crews you're going to lose from replacing this vehicle a half-dozen times. Seeing a real theme with this vehicle in action in my games as OKW....
...
How exactly are you struggling to keep a unit that can see further than any mobile unit can shoot alive exactly?
#stalinwept
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Lady Xenarra
11 Apr 2020, 19:07 PM
#55
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Posts: 956

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Apr 2020, 19:00 PMthedarkarmadillo
...
How exactly are you struggling to keep a unit that can see further than any mobile unit can shoot alive exactly?


Because my opponents are not idiots and can figure out that something is spotting for the ISGs raining death upon them at extreme ranges and they can't see any of my infantry spotting. Think I annoyed one of them to the point that he called in a IL-2 onto it

Later, it's the usual arty spam and being in 2-4 places at once. A few of the losses were calculated trades in order to give my teammate's Jagdtiger and JgdPz IV LOS on possible targets.
For Italy! We have outfoxed the enemy once more!
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Vipper
11 Apr 2020, 19:08 PM
#56
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Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Apr 2020, 19:00 PMthedarkarmadillo
...
How exactly are you struggling to keep a unit that can see further than any mobile unit can shoot alive exactly?

The unit sight is 35 when mobile it has to set up to get vision and that is only directional.

Even 251 has better vision on the move.
:)
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LoopDloop
11 Apr 2020, 19:32 PM
#57
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Posts: 3053

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Apr 2020, 19:07 PMLady Xenarra


Because my opponents are not idiots and can figure out that something is spotting for the ISGs raining death upon them at extreme ranges and they can't see any of my infantry spotting. Think I annoyed one of them to the point that he called in a IL-2 onto it

Later, it's the usual arty spam and being in 2-4 places at once. A few of the losses were calculated trades in order to give my teammate's Jagdtiger and JgdPz IV LOS on possible targets.

Well if you're losing it to IL2s then a) it deserved to die because you didn't counter his attempt at countering it, which happens, especially when things get hectic, and b) that's an IL2 that isn't killing an LefH or a rammed tank or something.
Playercard of LoopDloop

1v1: P2v2: P3v3: P4v4: P
1v1: P2v2: P3v3: P4v4: P
1v1: P2v2: P3v3: P4v4: P
1v1: P2v2: P3v3: P4v4: P


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thedarkarmadillo
11 Apr 2020, 19:55 PM
#58
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Apr 2020, 19:08 PMVipper

The unit sight is 35 when mobile it has to set up to get vision and that is only directional.

Even 251 has better vision on the move.

Which is fine. The unit is supposed to be set up. Less passive shit more playing the game is a better way to.. Play the game...

Set it up and you'll see the enemy coming a mile away. They flank you then tough shit, that's counterplay innit? 80 vision 360 on the move would be a tad OP...
#stalinwept
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Vipper
11 Apr 2020, 20:10 PM
#59
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Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Apr 2020, 19:55 PMthedarkarmadillo

Which is fine. The unit is supposed to be set up. Less passive shit more playing the game is a better way to.. Play the game...

Set it up and you'll see the enemy coming a mile away. They flank you then tough shit, that's counterplay innit? 80 vision 360 on the move would be a tad OP...

I do not disagree about the abilities that is why I like the Sneakeye MOD better.

On the other hand the unit could easily have 42-50 sight as other reckon vehicles do when moving.
:)
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WAAAGH2000
11 Apr 2020, 21:43 PM
#60
avatar of WAAAGH2000

Posts: 731

Maybe can make IRHT can reinforce near infantry like other HT
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