Ram + Offmap combo needs to be nerfed

Jump back to quoted post8 Jun 2020, 12:33 PMBaba

I really dont understand why someone would prefer the il2 rocket strafe over the 4 50kg bombs..
...

Jump back to quoted post8 Jun 2020, 12:39 PMVipper

because it cheaper and available earlier?

Jump back to quoted post8 Jun 2020, 13:12 PMKyle

As an Elefant 2vs2 players, I have seen too many players trying to move their T34/76mm into my flank to ram + IL2 bombing.

So the best way to counter this ( for me ) is to lay Riegel 43 mine around the flank and in front of the elefant: Allies usually will try to use ISU or swarm of tanks to all in against elefant, which in my case my vet 3 halftrack + spotting scope already let me know the incoming danger + Pak gun and PG with Shreck stay behind the elefant in case some lucky tank managed to get across

Usually when their tanks get immobilized I will just throw in a couple of bm so they rage quit

But yeah when you play 2vs2 and 100% use elefant like me, you will learn to love the Halftrack vet 3 + spotting scope + Riegel mine: When their tank stop dead in the track and the big " uh - oh, am I gonna lost the tank? " + bm start happening, Allies might lose their cool

Jump back to quoted post8 Jun 2020, 16:36 PMachpawel

They can just buy a sweeper for a 170 manpower engie, shoot mines from afar, done. They can also just arty/katy them accidentally. It can be pulled off (with mines) but basically it is almost always a mistake on the allied side. Regular mines cripple engines too and are much cheaper and don't require the doc. Those mines are nowhere near those soviet combos of guards snare, mark target, ram plus planes (alternatively hoorah plus snare, penal satchel, etc.) I'm not saying that those combos shouldn't exist. They are just so much more powerful.

Jump back to quoted post8 Jun 2020, 12:33 PMBaba

I really dont understand why someone would prefer the il2 rocket strafe over the 4 50kg bombs..
Happened more than once now. Exact same scenario, T34 ram into Axis heavy, call in, different result.
The rocket strafe is way to unpredicatble, the angle makes the rockets miss by a milimetre. the 50kg bombs always have the same effect, the same hitbox, a better angle and have way more dps to both vehicles and surrounding infantry

it costs more, sure. but soviet lategame can afford it. especially since you only have to call it in once when done right

Jump back to quoted post8 Jun 2020, 17:34 PMgrammar

You need to use a past unreal conditional to describe alternative possibilities in the past.

So the allies "could have bought" a sweeper, but did not. They "could have shot" the mines from afar, but did not. They "could have bombed" them accidentally, but did not.

Jump back to quoted post8 Jun 2020, 16:36 PMachpawel

They can just buy a sweeper for a 170 manpower engie, shoot mines from afar, done.

So you use your halftrack Vet 3 + spotting scope for superior line of sight, you see Engineer you shoot them first.

Also, in late game most of the time Engineers are back at rearline repairing vehicles.

They can also just arty/katy them accidentally.

Yeah but usually Arty / katy firing into heat Axis position ( MG, Gren, Elefant ), not into the flank of Elefant. Those flank usually only have 1 Grenadier to be look out, make Allies think " sweet jesus I can just move my medium tanks and flank that elefant, 1 faust ain't gonna damage my engine ".

It can be pulled off (with mines) but basically it is almost always a mistake on the allied side.

Yeah and as 100% Wehr Elefant player in 2vs2 I have seen too many times Allies Tanks trying attack Elefant from my flank and get baited into those 43 mine. ( Experience as Top 100 2vs2 Axis AT player )

And this game will cost your victory because of " mistake " isn't it?

Regular mines cripple engines too and are much cheaper and don't require the doc.

Explained why in my post I'm saying " I'm 100% Elefant player in 2vs2 ": Also 43 mine cost the same ( 50 muni ) as Teller mine, faster to build? by using halftrack and it disabled the movement completely: Allies will just look at their tank, cursing themselves for not bringing sweeper, looking at their tank getting blow up.

Those mines are nowhere near those soviet combos of guards snare, mark target, ram plus planes (alternatively hoorah plus snare, penal satchel, etc.) I'm not saying that those combos shouldn't exist. They are just so much more powerful.

Yeah but what can we do about it except for whinning on coh2.org? Those Allies combo have in the game for a long time and I bet 5$ that they will never balance it because there wouldn't be no point for T34/76mm ramming isn't it?

I rather just adapt, playing defensive with my Elefant and bait Allies into trigger my 43 mine than keep crying when they ram my Elefant and IL2 / Anti-tank overwatch bombing it.

Jump back to quoted post9 Jun 2020, 12:12 PMachpawel

I'm not sure if we understand each other. It is perfectly possible to protect your flanks with mines. It is not a problem at all that some players will be lured into such "traps" and some will manage to spot them. This is intended game mechanics and a good one.

Yes, explained why I'm telling people it is 1 of the solution to deal with the Ram + IL2 bombing: I'm not saying Ramming + IL2 bombing is 100% counterable using that but it's a working solution for now.

What, however, is a problem is the fact that Sovets may have unproportionally more very effective combos that will just delete very heavy (expensive) units for not that great cost and less micro input. Not a very easy way to fix this I guess as many/all of those abilities are just cool and should stay with the game. It can, however, be frustrating when one player needs to use "classic" ways of destroying enemy heavy units and the other player will just click and destroy their units with very little micro input in proportion.

Understand your point but like I previously said: They will never fix it so the only way is to living with it consider that Ramming has been in this game in the begining. Maybe a solution is that when a tank is in ramming mode ( speeding animation ), if you can damage by anti-tank round or faust the tank will stop?

Your idea to use vet 3 halftrack with scopes to spot engineers is an example of such much higher micro requirement on the axis player's end in your scenario. And imo it is unlikely to work as engineers can be behind the first line and will spot mines anyway.

Idk, vet 3 halftrack + Spotting Scope you simply just let it stay still and it will increase line of sight so much it's almost like maphack, you only need to point Grenadier / Ostwind to shoot at those 4 man Engineer first.

I also noticed that some Allies even in top 50 are not familiar with 43 mine " shape ": because it's 3 sticks mine ( Not circle shape mines ) they might not even know what it is or pay attention to the notify in the bottom left and their engineers just keep moving on

Jump back to quoted post9 Jun 2020, 12:55 PMBaba

ram gives you a pretty short window to take action.
say you have a 152 to kill the vehicle you rammed. it gets one shot of before the rammed vehicle is fully manouverable again and just drives away.
its not worth the t34 you just permanently immobilised and probably condemned to be destroyed

a Il2 bombing run on the other hand... makes the t34 a worthwhile investment

Jump back to quoted post8 Jun 2020, 12:33 PMBaba

it costs more, sure. but soviet lategame can afford it. especially since you only have to call it in once when done right

Jump back to quoted post9 Jun 2020, 19:54 PMBaba

experience tought me that you rather use 1 x 200 ammo than throwing away 2 t 34s without getting the job done

Jump back to quoted post9 Jun 2020, 20:30 PMBaba

Play a game, ram a Tiger, Elefant, KT, Jt and call in a il2 rocket strafe on it. come back here then and post the replay

ive done it countless times now, its not reliable.
i cant waste as many t34s as i have to call in the strafe to destroy one of the aforementioned tanks, thats what on earth im talking about.