T70
28 Mar 2020, 18:48 PM
#21
Posts: 40
IMO some of t70's damage should be moved from the cannon to the mg so it won't wipe infantry with a few lucky shots. Maybe make it a bit slower so it can't chase retreating squads so easily.
28 Mar 2020, 18:50 PM
#22
Posts: 1351
If any nerfs are tied with lowering the price everything should be ok.
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28 Mar 2020, 18:52 PM
#23
Posts: 1217
Had to fight one yesterday. Two full hp squads that I instantly retreated (1 Gren and shortly after that a PG) wiped on retreat. Instant gg. The unit is simply broken. Either the accuracy has to go down or the ability to kill two models per shot. Threeshotting squads in less than 10 seconds is bs.
28 Mar 2020, 18:56 PM
#24
Posts: 500
That's like saying obers need to be brought in line with conscripts or grens, because they are OP, ignoring completely their cost and timing.
Obersoldaten lose to Units considerably cheaper than themselves. If the T-70 would routinely lose to a single 222, you could bet your ass there would be threads asking for buffs to T-70.
A vet 5 Obersoldaten in green cover for example loses to a vet 0 Shocktroop charging across red cover. Without fail, tested it like ten times. When Obersoldaten come out, they lose to Rifles and Infantry sections.
Obers also come out much, MUCH later than a T-70 and cost more overall.
In other words, yes, this is exactly what was done to Obers.
28 Mar 2020, 19:31 PM
#25
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
A vet 5 Obersoldaten in green cover for example loses to a vet 0 Shocktroop charging across red cover. Without fail, tested it like ten times.
This is worthless in a vacuum. Obers could retreat into a trench building and win. Obers can make shocks drop 2-4 models then retreat with 0 losses. Obers can set up in front if an MG and bait shocks. You will absolutely win the manpower trade between the two units if you play correctly, which is what matters. Shocks will displace the Obers because that’s what they excel at, but Obers will win the manpower trade.
28 Mar 2020, 19:54 PM
#26
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Obersoldaten lose to Units considerably cheaper than themselves. If the T-70 would routinely lose to a single 222, you could bet your ass there would be threads asking for buffs to T-70.
A vet 5 Obersoldaten in green cover for example loses to a vet 0 Shocktroop charging across red cover. Without fail, tested it like ten times. When Obersoldaten come out, they lose to Rifles and Infantry sections.
0 micro situation then?
Ok, parked vet3 T-70 loses to single PaK, puppchen or PG squad, both come much earlier and cost much less as fuel is much, MUCH more valuable then muni or manpower.
Do you honestly believe vet5 overs with 2 types of nades and suppressive ability will even let shocks get in effective range?
Seriously, this is THE best example that no micro, no ability scenarios indicate absolutely nothing and are completely detached from reality of actual skirmish.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
28 Mar 2020, 20:35 PM
#27
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
I've said it in the other T70 thread. There should be more soft ways to counter or deal with the T70.
Which is why i said that small armor nerf to T70, improving 222/Flak HT to trade better would be a healthier solution than to expect next meta for OH to be Mobile Def again.
https://www.coh2.org/topic/104209/is-the-t70-op/page/4#post_id808129
Which is why i said that small armor nerf to T70, improving 222/Flak HT to trade better would be a healthier solution than to expect next meta for OH to be Mobile Def again.
https://www.coh2.org/topic/104209/is-the-t70-op/page/4#post_id808129
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And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
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And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
28 Mar 2020, 21:17 PM
#28
Posts: 5279
Had to fight one yesterday. Two full hp squads that I instantly retreated (1 Gren and shortly after that a PG) wiped on retreat. Instant gg. The unit is simply broken. Either the accuracy has to go down or the ability to kill two models per shot. Threeshotting squads in less than 10 seconds is bs.
It's gf because at the time of the tank coming out that you know is coming you were chased all the way back to your base either twice with NOTHING to so much as scare it away or dissuade it? Yes that's TOTALLY a balance issue. "I didn't build any counters and it cost me the game, plz nerf" lay a fucking mine. Build a pak. Try.
#stalinwept
28 Mar 2020, 21:43 PM
#29
Posts: 1217
It literally threeshot two full hp squads. Read what I wrote. That is indeed a balance issue.
It's gf because at the time of the tank coming out that you know is coming you were chased all the way back to your base either twice with NOTHING to so much as scare it away or dissuade it? Yes that's TOTALLY a balance issue. "I didn't build any counters and it cost me the game, plz nerf" lay a fucking mine. Build a pak. Try.
If you had a clue of the game you would know that by the time the T70 arrives you usually have one Pak out (more Paks by that time will lose you the inf game). That Pak can cover one spot on the map. Any decent player will chase units with the T70 on the rest of the map and avoid the area the Pak is positioned. Now have fun moving your Pak around, keeping a snare nearby, not overextending the Pak and facing a unit that can kill your stuff in 10 secs.
In fact I might call the T70 the most imbalanced thing in the game currently. Can't think of bigger bs.
28 Mar 2020, 21:59 PM
#30
Posts: 320
T70 is OP period.
Less armor making it easier to damage with 222 / FlaK HT or reduce it damage potential.
Less armor making it easier to damage with 222 / FlaK HT or reduce it damage potential.
28 Mar 2020, 22:30 PM
#31
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
”I didn't build any counters and it cost me the game, plz nerf" lay a fucking mine. Build a pak. Try.
You can literally say that about any OP unit. You’re not even making an argument.
28 Mar 2020, 22:34 PM
#32
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
You can literally say that about any OP unit. You’re not even making an argument.
And vague argument without any details is not an argument either.
For all we know the wipes in question could be a retreat from opponent base across very large/long map, being chased by T-70 for 30+ seconds uninterrupted.
That's why I'm generally laughing at all these claims without replays.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
28 Mar 2020, 23:04 PM
#33
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
For all we know the wipes in question could be a retreat from opponent base across very large/long map, being chased by T-70 for 30+ seconds uninterrupted..
Yeah but when most of the top players agree that it’s op it’s pretty hard to argue against them. There are some like Bao who think it’s fine, but the majority like borobadger, orangepest, whorunbartertown and miragefla to name a few all agree that in 1v1 the T70 is OP.
28 Mar 2020, 23:11 PM
#34
Posts: 978
The T-70 has a cannon that deals AOE damage and can kill two models at a time on a regular basis. The problem I see is the rate of fire. It fires the main gun ever 2 seconds? That is way too much for a gun that snipes a model per shot and can kill two models from time to time, especially against the smaller Ost squads.
28 Mar 2020, 23:14 PM
#35
Posts: 1392
The T-70 has a cannon that deals AOE damage and can kill two models at a time on a regular basis. The problem I see is the rate of fire. It fires the main gun ever 2 seconds? That is way too much for a gun that snipes a model per shot and can kill two models from time to time, especially against the smaller Ost squads.
It would be interresting to change the weapon-profile to work like StuG E (only with a fast shell). So it doesn't kills instant, but deals good area-damage.
Give it same gun as KV8 as switching ability?
28 Mar 2020, 23:43 PM
#36
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Yeah but when most of the top players agree that it’s op it’s pretty hard to argue against them. There are some like Bao who think it’s fine, but the majority like borobadger, orangepest, whorunbartertown and miragefla to name a few all agree that in 1v1 the T70 is OP.
Who are these top players agreeing its op?
Why are they not voicing it up?
Have you listened to too many Dane streams?
I'm quite positive we have more then 5 top players and mira isn't one of them(at last wasn't last time I've seen).
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
29 Mar 2020, 01:04 AM
#40
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
Please be civil and remember to discuss the T-70.
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