Well then go on and put out some arguments instead of being edgy.
Here’s a great argument:
It used to be like that and everyone hated it, so it changed.
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Well then go on and put out some arguments instead of being edgy.
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Very easy to argue against that.
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It really isn't. 90 Muni for a squad wipe = OP, 50 Muni to kill 70 fuel unit totally fine? That's complete nonsense
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+1 on that point.
They were a bit cheesy when only sweepers could see them, but now they are almost useless. You have to use sight blockers (not the actual LOS in-game system, but that block the view from the camera to the ground) to use them. So only bushes, trees, some buildings. That's even cheesier.
Also someone brought up a comparison to the Teller mine in a discussion months ago to argue demos should only be seen by sweepers as well. Hard to argue against that to be honest with the only exception that OST is not able to spam Tellers, while SOV often have munis floating for demos.
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Here’s a great argument:
It used to be like that and everyone hated it, so it changed.
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.Your B4 comparison is quite off. Nobody knows where the B4 will hit, not even the person building it. And there is absolutely no counter play to the explosion. The demo charge can (at the moment) be swept by any squad without getting any damage. And in the previous implementation they could still be nullified by having sweepers around.
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Soviets dont float ammo nearly as much anymore imo. That is less of an issue now. Not being allowed in cap circles would have been enough next to a price increase at the time imo.
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Yeah my B4 comparison is way off, the value you get from invisible demos is off the charts compared to the inaccurate B4 that’s also doctrinal, expensive, and can be countered by anything.
Meanwhile you want Axis players to have a sweeper at every point on the map to avoid getting squad wiped by the invisible stock Goliath. Basically no edge capping whatsoever, you have to keep a sweeper with you 24/7 or you get rekt. What about okw? They have to make 1-2 extra 300mp Spios for sweepers? That’s very fair, not like they’re already struggling against the Soviets early game, you wanna give them invisible stock goliaths too.
I don’t know what the point of this conversation is. You want Soviets to have stock invisible Goliaths (yeah they can’t move but who cares when you can only detect with sqeeper?) just because of tellers which are just a slight upgrade over the alternative mines that almost everyone gets.
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What the hell are you talking about?
Invisible demos = quickly place a 100% accuracy B4 shot on the ground and delete whatever you want unless swept and destroyed from afar. This is also stock. The alternative is to go Counterattack doctrine and make a b4, which is easily counterable by direct and indirect fire, not invisible and not accurate, not to mention extremely costly in comparison. The alternative is easily countered without needing a sweeper, unless it’s a Goliath which has audio cues and is doctrinal.
Tellers = basically stronger TM28 mines, they one shot a LV but cannot be detonated by infantry.
This is stock and available only to a faction that does not have a light TD for the LV phase stock (Puma) to compensate.
The alternative is a TM28/Schu/M6 mine which are either stock or doctrinal (usf) and detonate by inf and deal slightly less damage to LVs, enough to cripple but not kill. Both need a sweeper to counter.
Again, if these two are the same to you then you are 1 billion percent clueless. This is not debateable.
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I'd argue that if every squad should be able to detect demo charges, than the detection radius should be lowered. They should detect it approximately at the point were they get the outer edges of the AoE damage. So no wipe if a player is careful and pulls back, but they should get damaged.
That's your opinion.
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It really isn't. 90 Muni for a squad wipe = OP, 50 Muni to kill 70 fuel unit totally fine? That makes no sense to me
And heard all the arguments about why I'm wrong
"It's easier to sweep for 1 unit than 4-5 squads"
No it isn't. The unit you're sweeping for is a light tank. There might only be one of them but keeping it waiting for your sweeper wastes precious time on a unit that has a limited window
"You could place it on any capping point getting easy wipes"
No, you need vision. Only way to do that without a spotter is placing it in the center, which can easily be avoided. To this day I cap points on the edge so I don't reveal what type of squad is there
The demo costed more, required manual detonation, and was the only unique thing CEs carried. I think they deserved to get nerfed, but it blows my mind how people can think the teller is fine
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No it’s not, it’s the general consensus that forced the demo charge change from invisible and only detectable by sweepers to what we have today. I’m not being a dick, you’re just making a garbage argument because you don’t understand how broken invisible sweepers would be.
The demo costed more, required manual detonation, and was the only unique thing CEs carried. I think they deserved to get nerfed, but it blows my mind how people can think the teller is fine
Also the 20 damage to death on LVs thing is also dumb IN MY OPINION, unless you wanna give Ost a stock Puma in which case yes please.
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Combat Engeniers are fine no change needed at all.
And what is with this demo charge discussion?? Invisible demos are omega cancer. Specially okw has a hard time to field more than one sweeper... if you want to encourage okw blobs, sure make em invisible again. Cause when you have to expect demos on every point, blobbing around your sweeper is the best option.
It actually is 5times easier to sweep for one vehicle than for 5 infantry sqauds. A decent player will always sweep for their light vehicle against ostheer or they accept the risk of losing it, which obviously can be worth the risk.
For the vision thing, how is that an argument? just place a con behind sandbags/ plant trip wire flairs / poke with your t70 etc. getting vision is not an issue.
Mine spam is already one of the most annoying thing about soviets, no need to make it super cancer again as it used to be with invisible demos. Just use em with a brain behind los blocker or buidlings.
One reason why tellers are totally fine btw, you cant just spam them, you actually have to think about where to plant them.
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The only change I proposed for demos is removing territory point restriction. It's unnecessary if any squad can see them, WHICH I AM FINE WITH.
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Okay cool I agree with that.
As for the 20 damage to death I’ve explained it before.
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Can you actually read the fucking post please? I am in full agreement that invisible demos are OP, I don't know how many times I have to say it. Jesus Christ
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you compared old (invisible) demos with teller or am i wrong?
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So I need to have 1000% perfect reflexes all over the map and retreat (it’s faster) because if I’m 0.5 secs late my squad is in wipe range? And this is somehow fair? Why would the Soviets have that? Which equivalent to the demo charge do other factions have?
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