Please Fix Guard Motor Coordination and Counterattack in 2v2

I think the only thing about Guard Motor I find a bit too strong is the 85 considering its cheaper than the OKW P4 and also has Mark Target in this commander allowing it to easily beat out any armor around its cost. I think its performance would be more justified if it was 140 fuel at least.

I think the only thing about Guard Motor I find a bit too strong is the 85 considering its cheaper than the OKW P4 and also has Mark Target in this commander allowing it to easily beat out any armor around its cost. I think its performance would be more justified if it was 140 fuel at least.

Now you are comparing a tank+doctrinal ability with just another tank. That would be like saying that the puma needs a cost increase because it punches above its weight with heat rounds.

The same can be done on a docrinal level. Guards Motor has:
+ mark target
+ strong premium tanks
+ guards
+ 120mm mortar
- no off map bombs
- no howitzers
- no heavy tanks

120 mm is basicly a howitzer especially agaisnt ost 4 Men untis
dont need off maps
no heavy tanks neede because mark target and SU85 shred every heavy...

U know why the commander is meta since release?

120 mm is basicly a howitzer especially agaisnt ost 4 Men untis
dont need off maps
no heavy tanks neede because mark target and SU85 shred every heavy...

U know why the commander is meta since release?

Jeez, I never knew that if something is Meta it means it has 0 exploitable weaknesses and can be used in every gamemode. Thanks for enlightening me.

Well OP, seems you are out of luck and nothing can be done to increase your odds when fighting against double Guard Motor in team games. Best to just switch to OKW.

GMC is the best put together doctrine in the game.

Everything is solid and it's never been far from meta, but it also doesn't crowd out other commanders by giving you everything.

Now you are comparing a tank+doctrinal ability with just another tank. That would be like saying that the puma needs a cost increase because it punches above its weight with heat rounds.

85 is better than OKW P4 even without Mark Target so I don't really get what your point is.

Try 2x paks into p4 against 85s. The p4 alone is no match for the 85s, but 2x pak guns makes any tank nervous.

Use your HMG42 range to push and suppress entrenched guards then push with LMG42 grens.

I'd say Pgrens are situational and map dependant. Schrecks are good on the defence to cover tanks and pak guns from flanks. They shouldn't be rushing guards from 35.

Brummbar should still be able to shoot while buttoned with attack ground. Use that to injure or wipe the buttoning squad or reverse away. You can also push the squad if you're on top of the squad to cancel the button.

Werfer is decent vs guards since they don't like moving. Also good vs the HM38 and all support teams.

Certain doctrines are very good at shutting down other doctrinal units like the 34/85. The Elephant can 3 shot the 34/85, but you need to protect its flanks.

Panthers are decent but you need to keep the 34/85s away from it when outnumbered or you'll be overrun by mark target and volume of fire + ram.

Assualt support doctrine ju87 mg strafe insta pins infantry and is REALLY strong. That doctrine is in dire need of a nerf. Comes with OP frag bombs, tiger, MG strafe, opels that cost 0 popcap, arty officer for 2x werfer. You can use the MG strafe to shut down for mother russia instantly. I think it's overall a net loss in munitions between the 2 but it'll force a retreat. So long as you have more territory you'll gain more resources in return.

mines win games. 34/85s are phenominal, but they're no match for heavy armor in a frontal slug fight. If you pull out a tiger or elephant you force him to mark, flank and ram. If they hit mines though their push fails.

B4 is really cheesey, but it's easy to counter with jaegar armor.

120 mm is basicly a howitzer especially agaisnt ost 4 Men untis
dont need off maps
no heavy tanks neede because mark target and SU85 shred every heavy...

U know why the commander is meta since release?

The 120 does 68(or 62?) damage to infantry. It is anything but a howitzer, other than a similar manpower cost. It is practically never worth the additional pop cap and cost above the 82mm. It still sounds like the old OP 120 but that's about it.

After trying the B4 a few more times and playing aginst it, I think the B4 is better than a lot of people are giving it credit. If you pick targets well and get vet quickly, it starts wiping stuff like crazy. I just played a 3v3 where someone on the other team wiped two of my teammates walking stuka's with a B4. It's a little less RNG when someone gets to gamble really often at vet 3.

The 120 does 68(or 62?) damage to infantry. It is anything but a howitzer, other than a similar manpower cost. It is practically never worth the additional pop cap and cost above the 82mm. It still sounds like the old OP 120 but that's about it.

Their damage is the same at 80 - the key difference lies in AoE. For 82mm max range is 4 and near/mid/far damage range are defined as 1/2/3. For 120mm max range is 6 and damage ranges are defined as 1,5/3/4,5. Damage multiplier is 0,85/0,5/0,25. Simply put, 120mm has greater AoE and range at the cost of fire rate.

Plus, the 120mm absolutely wrecks ambient buildings.

Thank god and balance team then.

Also Grenadier is getting nice upgrades next patch
-2 Reinforcement cost
-30% received dmg ? (Was that previous patch?) at Vet 3
- +25% capping speed

I think.

Their damage is the same at 80 - the key difference lies in AoE. For 82mm max range is 4 and near/mid/far damage range are defined as 1/2/3. For 120mm max range is 6 and damage ranges are defined as 1,5/3/4,5. Damage multiplier is 0,85/0,5/0,25. Simply put, 120mm has greater AoE and range at the cost of fire rate.

Plus, the 120mm absolutely wrecks ambient buildings.

plus its 6Men unit which u can fuk without stuka airdrop or Sturmtiger direkt hit
plus can retreat...

plus its 6Men unit which u can fuk without stuka airdrop or Sturmtiger direkt hit
plus can retreat...

That's about 120mm?
When was last time you've played the game?

plus its 6Men unit which u can fuk without stuka airdrop or Sturmtiger direkt hit
plus can retreat...

It's 5 men, because it can be operated by 1 man. It effectively has the same crew size as regular soviet mortar, which requires 2 men to operate. Besides, other mortars can retreat as well.

Their damage is the same at 80 - the key difference lies in AoE. For 82mm max range is 4 and near/mid/far damage range are defined as 1/2/3. For 120mm max range is 6 and damage ranges are defined as 1,5/3/4,5. Damage multiplier is 0,85/0,5/0,25. Simply put, 120mm has greater AoE and range at the cost of fire rate.

Plus, the 120mm absolutely wrecks ambient buildings.

That's for direct hits against say buildings or vehicles. The damage multiplier is set below 1 for near range so no mortar can 1 shot any model at full HP and will mostly be doing 68 dmg.

The 120mm doesn't wreck garrisons (unless it's using a different dmg type which i'm not aware of). As both do the same dmg, even at far range, the dmg to buildings is the same. Against units inside, outside of direct hits or been affected by AoE, is the same as well.
When a weapon has the property "dmg all in hold = true", they do the "far dmg" to all entities disregarding if they are in the AoE or not (remember to aim your grenades against the highest concentration window).

The only thing that the 120mm has it going for it, it's that it's easier to use due to extended range.

I've already made several test with the unit and have been saying for years that the 120mm is both overrated, overpriced and overvalue (vet wise). The unit is better now that ALL other mortars and indirect fire has been nerf (by comparison) but it's still better to get a normal 82mm if you plan to use barrage at all.

https://www.coh2.org/topic/103343/82mm-vs-120mm-mortar-against-flak-hq/page/1


Opinion: it doesn't outperform the 82mm mortar by cost (240 vs 340), popcap (6 vs 9) or vet (it has double requirements and each vet level doubles it, so when the 120mm hits vet 1 the 82mm is vet 2).

That's for direct hits against say buildings or vehicles. The damage multiplier is set below 1 for near range so no mortar can 1 shot any model at full HP and will mostly be doing 68 dmg.

Ah, I misunderstood the systems in place. Since there are 3 values (near/mid/far), but the AoE radius is greater than "far" (for example, for 120mm mortar far is 4,5 but AoE radius is 6), I always assumed that the 0-to-near range is considered "direct hit" and always deals full damage.

The 120mm doesn't wreck garrisons (unless it's using a different dmg type which i'm not aware of). As both do the same dmg, even at far range, the dmg to buildings is the same. Against units inside, outside of direct hits or been affected by AoE, is the same as well.
When a weapon has the property "dmg all in hold = true", they do the "far dmg" to all entities disregarding if they are in the AoE or not (remember to aim your grenades against the highest concentration window).

Again, my mistake - I was referring to AoE damage multiplier of 120mm mortar to buildings. For autofire it's set to 1 for all ranges, unlike other mortars.

The only thing that the 120mm has it going for it, it's that it's easier to use due to extended range.

I've already made several test with the unit and have been saying for years that the 120mm is both overrated, overpriced and overvalue (vet wise). The unit is better now that ALL other mortars and indirect fire has been nerf (by comparison) but it's still better to get a normal 82mm if you plan to use barrage at all.

https://www.coh2.org/topic/103343/82mm-vs-120mm-mortar-against-flak-hq/page/1


Opinion: it doesn't outperform the 82mm mortar by cost (240 vs 340), popcap (6 vs 9) or vet (it has double requirements and each vet level doubles it, so when the 120mm hits vet 1 the 82mm is vet 2).

Agreed. While precision shot cheese is not something I'd like to see again, I agree that 120mm mortar doesn't bring enough bang for the buck its worth. Just yesterday by going through the weapon files, I've found that it's barrage AoE ranges are lower for no apparent reason.

Ah, I misunderstood the systems in place. Since there are 3 values (near/mid/far), but the AoE radius is greater than "far" (for example, for 120mm mortar far is 4,5 but AoE radius is 6), I always assumed that the 0-to-near range is considered "direct hit" and always deals full damage.


Again, my mistake - I was referring to AoE damage multiplier of 120mm mortar to buildings. For autofire it's set to 1 for all ranges, unlike other mortars.



Agreed. While precision shot cheese is not something I'd like to see again, I agree that 120mm mortar doesn't bring enough bang for the buck its worth. Just yesterday by going through the weapon files, I've found that it's barrage AoE ranges are lower for no apparent reason.

Unfortunately i pointed out that several years ago. Before the mortar reworks, it might had been intended. Cause the barrage by passes the RoF weakness the 120mm had and the dmg was still good.

Unfortunately i pointed out that several years ago. Before the mortar reworks, it might had been intended. Cause the barrage by passes the RoF weakness the 120mm had and the dmg was still good.

Well, if the 120mm ever gets on the balance radar, standardizing that would be a good starting point. Though I guess from the perspective of this thread it would be considered quite the opposite of "fixing" Guard Motor Coordination.

Make T34/85 stock unit and soviets will no more use only 2-3 commanders with tanks everytime.

1- You always have a doctrine which can 1 shot Howitzers on teamgames. B4 was a bad unit design but it's non issue since it lost it's precision strike.

2- Unless you provide a replay of the game you had issues with, i think nothing you are complaining for is an issue at the moment.

If you are main issue are Guards buttoning, you pick a doctrine with smoke. Having any indirect fire destroys Guards as they can't do shit on the move.
You don't push Guards with PGs. They are defensive unit and PG are not an "assault" unit. At least not against any unit with decent DPS (unless G43). If you can drop at them from cover/shot blocker sure do so. But no in open field.

You don't spam PIV to deal with T3485.

Mark vehicle problem is that the debuff is not tied to the plane been alive or not IMO.

B4 is still meme/niche.

FMR + Penals PTRS. Penals late game are only snare units. If he has more than 2 he has no AI.


From the rant, it looks to me like you play random 2v2 and you might possible be facing an AT team.

Non Issue I lost 11(no joke 11 tanks 5 ostwinds 4 stugs and 2 p4) tanks 1 game from B4 standerd barrages, no vision near max range all.

Non Issue I lost 11(no joke 11 tanks 5 ostwinds 4 stugs and 2 p4) tanks 1 game from B4 standerd barrages, no vision near max range all.

That means you took absolutely zero measures to counter a howitzer for at least 20 minutes(extremely optimistic 50% hit rate) as its quite impossible it landed perfect hit each time.

That's 100% on you/your team.