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No King Tiger buffs planned?

Should the King Tiger be buffed?
Option Distribution Votes
63%
13%
4%
20%
Total votes: 84
Vote VOTE! Vote ABSTAIN
29 Feb 2020, 13:36 PM
#1
avatar of Cardboard Tank

Posts: 978

With the impending Tiger I crutch nerfs and no changes to the 60 range tds ruling supreme, I feel that OKW might struggle in the upcoming patch. More people are going to want to try the KT but that thing still feels lackluster, which is going to be more apparent when the Tiger I isn't a no brainer any longer.

The King Tigers gun was nerfed ages ago, it is slow and the armour isn't that great imo since the pen of tds is too high. So you have a sitting duck that can't really inflict breakthroughs.
29 Feb 2020, 13:39 PM
#2
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

Tiger II

Changes have been made to make its main gun more reliable at forcing off enemy infantry by increasing the amount of health damage dealt, while reducing the radius where it can kill full health models. Furthermore, to help define its unique role, the Spearhead ability has been moved to veterancy 1.

Fuel cost from 280 to 270
AOE distance from 1/2/3 to 0/1.25/4
AOE damage from 1/0.35/0.05 to 0.75/0.25/0.15
Scatter angle from 7.5 to 5
Spearhead to veterancy 1, Combat Blitz to veterancy 3
Veterancy requirements from 4040/8080/16160/20200/26866 to 3630/7260/14560/18928/24606


5 months ago.
Does that ring any bells for you?
29 Feb 2020, 13:44 PM
#3
avatar of Cardboard Tank

Posts: 978

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Feb 2020, 13:39 PMKatitof


5 months ago.
Does that ring any bells for you?
Doesn't help the unit is not used atm. and is not going to be used in the future since the changes you are listing did nothing.
29 Feb 2020, 13:57 PM
#4
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

Doesn't help the unit is not used atm. and is not going to be used in the future since the changes you are listing did nothing.


Because something called Tiger was introduced. The whole plan is to nerf IS2/Tigers (hopefully adjusting Pershing as well) and leave KT alone.

It's like when they nerf all mortars and suddenly the 120mm doesn't look as bad even though the unit wasn't touched.


PD: i added a neutral option on the poll, as it is early.
29 Feb 2020, 13:59 PM
#5
avatar of SgtJonson

Posts: 143



Because something called Tiger was introduced. The whole plan is to nerf IS2/Tigers (hopefully adjusting Pershing as well) and leave KT alone.

It's like when they nerf all mortars and suddenly the 120mm doesn't look as bad even though the unit wasn't touched.


You know, that might actually be an interesting turn of events. :)
MMX
29 Feb 2020, 14:04 PM
#6
avatar of MMX

Posts: 999 | Subs: 1

Doesn't help the unit is not used atm. and is not going to be used in the future since the changes you are listing did nothing.


the command tiger doing everything the kt can while being more maneuverable, cheaper to tech and to field is probably the main reason it isn't seen all too often. the upcoming patch may not affect the kt directly, but the increased cp requirements for heavies in general, plus the nerfs specifically to the tiger may change that picture soon.
29 Feb 2020, 15:17 PM
#7
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833

If you want a better KT pick elite armor

KT with commander and HEAT is arguably the best heavy once the patch releases
29 Feb 2020, 15:31 PM
#8
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

Main issue with the Königstiger is turret rotation which is laughably slow. If there is to be a KT buff, it needs Spearhead in vet 0 and combat blitz in vet 1.
29 Feb 2020, 15:46 PM
#9
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 857 | Subs: 2

Main issue with the Königstiger is turret rotation which is laughably slow. If there is to be a KT buff, it needs Spearhead in vet 0 and combat blitz in vet 1.


+1
29 Feb 2020, 19:00 PM
#10
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 3032 | Subs: 3

Anyone else experiencing horrendous accuracy from King Tigers? Dunno why but almost everytime I get KT it misses 90% of the shots completely vs infantry targets. It's almost like the pre-"buff" KT was more reliable vs infantry than the current one. Any other heavy tank feels like having much better AI performance.


Oh and I think on maps with even slightest elevation you can completely forget about KT, then 99% of the shots miss
29 Feb 2020, 19:20 PM
#11
avatar of Duffman

Posts: 55

You just need to attack ground untill vet 2 scatter bonus then it can do it bye itself imo. But sometimes it just works, very consistent.
29 Feb 2020, 21:17 PM
#12
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1

Anyone else experiencing horrendous accuracy from King Tigers? Dunno why but almost everytime I get KT it misses 90% of the shots completely vs infantry targets. It's almost like the pre-"buff" KT was more reliable vs infantry than the current one. Any other heavy tank feels like having much better AI performance.


Oh and I think on maps with even slightest elevation you can completely forget about KT, then 99% of the shots miss


I already reported this once the last big heavy tank patch hit.

Something feels off with the KT. As you said it just misses targets too often even though it was meant to become more reliable. I often have it over or undershoot wildly, especially with any sort of elevation difference between KT and target.

Maybe someone from the mod team can look into it and confirm every stat is as intended?

29 Feb 2020, 21:39 PM
#13
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 785

I actually think the KT could use a base speed increase tbh. Might have to adjust the vet a bit to accommodate that, however.
29 Feb 2020, 23:08 PM
#14
avatar of miragefla
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13

KT definitely suffers a lot if its forced to fire on the move from what I noticed. As for scatter, the only reason I could think for its strangeness is its scatter max is 5.7 with angle scatter being 5 and somehow that causes issues.

It has less offset than the regular Tiger - though the regular Tiger has less scatter - and the projectiles originate from the same-ish area.
29 Feb 2020, 23:35 PM
#15
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 682

KT definitely suffers a lot if its forced to fire on the move from what I noticed. As for scatter, the only reason I could think for its strangeness is its scatter max is 5.7 with angle scatter being 5 and somehow that causes issues.

It has less offset than the regular Tiger - though the regular Tiger has less scatter - and the projectiles originate from the same-ish area.


What's stopping you guys from making it exactly the same as the tiger if that's a possible issue? Just curious.

I've noticed the same, sometimes the KT's shots go way the fuck off.
1 Mar 2020, 00:40 AM
#16
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 3032 | Subs: 3

KT definitely suffers a lot if its forced to fire on the move from what I noticed. As for scatter, the only reason I could think for its strangeness is its scatter max is 5.7 with angle scatter being 5 and somehow that causes issues.

It has less offset than the regular Tiger - though the regular Tiger has less scatter - and the projectiles originate from the same-ish area.


Do you have access to the KT maingun stats from 2014-16? When KT was overpowered as hell cuz it oneshot wiped a lot of times.

Maybe we should test the scatter values from that time but with "horrible" AoE damage so you cant get cheesy wipes. So the KT hits inf reliably but a hit on a clumped squad only does 50-60% damage or something like that.

As the most expensive and one of the slowest tanks in CoH2, the KT just has to be able to threaten infantry squads and push them back reliably. Right now a KT has to be scared by infantry and not the other way around.


The KT's poor AI performance is a major issue for OKW in teamgames. The faction has by far the worst weapons against inf spammers/blobbers. Only the Tiger I can compete with toplevel tryhard blobbers atm but that could change with the upcoming changes. And what if you didnt select Tiger doctrine?
1 Mar 2020, 05:17 AM
#17
avatar of miragefla
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13



Do you have access to the KT maingun stats from 2014-16? When KT was overpowered as hell cuz it oneshot wiped a lot of times.

Maybe we should test the scatter values from that time but with "horrible" AoE damage so you cant get cheesy wipes. So the KT hits inf reliably but a hit on a clumped squad only does 50-60% damage or something like that.

As the most expensive and one of the slowest tanks in CoH2, the KT just has to be able to threaten infantry squads and push them back reliably. Right now a KT has to be scared by infantry and not the other way around.


The KT's poor AI performance is a major issue for OKW in teamgames. The faction has by far the worst weapons against inf spammers/blobbers. Only the Tiger I can compete with toplevel tryhard blobbers atm but that could change with the upcoming changes. And what if you didnt select Tiger doctrine?


The original values are:

-Angle scatter from 4 to 7.5
-Distance scatter max from 4 to 5.7
-Scatter offset from 0.25 to 0.185

So the difference is really by 1 for Angle Scatter and 1.7 for scatter max.
1 Mar 2020, 05:35 AM
#18
avatar of Taksin02

Posts: 148

why? OKW Tiger 1 is better & cheaper just less armor and HP










1 Mar 2020, 06:29 AM
#19
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

Just make it slightly cheaper in fuel, like -15 fuel, -35mp. I think we can accept that.
1 Mar 2020, 09:32 AM
#20
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1



The original values are:

-Angle scatter from 4 to 7.5
-Distance scatter max from 4 to 5.7
-Scatter offset from 0.25 to 0.185

So the difference is really by 1 for Angle Scatter and 1.7 for scatter max.


When it wiping units before December 2017

-Angle scatter 4
-Distance scatter max 4
-Scatter offset 0.25

It went to

-Angle scatter 7.5
-Distance scatter max 5.7
-Scatter offset 0.185

And now:

-Angle scatter 5
-Distance scatter max 5.7
-Scatter offset 0.185

But also:
AOE distance from 1/2/3 to 0/1.25/4
AOE damage from 1/0.35/0.05 to 0.75/0.25/0.15
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