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russian armor

Why maxim is trash

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27 Feb 2020, 10:39 AM
#141
avatar of wongtp

Posts: 647

Maxims tear apart infantry inside buildings. Funny thing no one mentions that.

Like vickers they are very good when garrisoned.

Maxims is a trash unit in the hands of a trash player...

Oh wait, i know whats comming... "WSTUKA WIPES IT IN NO TIME! / DEATHLOOP BLABLA / SUPPRESSION IS BAD"
Well id say with that logic that shocks are trash units becasause their PPSH cant damage a P4.


Dont be stupid.

What we want is a decent mg. Which means double obers/falls cant just blob up, face tank it at max range and shred it to bits. That is what it means by a decent hmg.

If what you think the strength of a hmg is to park them in a building the whole game. You must not be very good at the game.

Like how mg42 and mg34 absolutely destroys a bad infantry push.
27 Feb 2020, 10:44 AM
#142
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

Maxims tear apart infantry inside buildings. Funny thing no one mentions that.

Like vickers they are very good when garrisoned.

Maxims is a trash unit in the hands of a trash player...

Oh wait, i know whats comming... "WSTUKA WIPES IT IN NO TIME! / DEATHLOOP BLABLA / SUPPRESSION IS BAD"
Well id say with that logic that shocks are trash units becasause their PPSH cant damage a P4.

Yes, soft countering garrisons, that's EXACTLY why people pick HMGs. You really went under with your arguments.
27 Feb 2020, 10:47 AM
#143
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

DEATHLOOP BLABLA


Here’s a joke for you. 4 Volks walk into a Vickers and run away screaming. 4 volks run into a Maxim and recrew it.
27 Feb 2020, 13:00 PM
#144
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

Maxims tear apart infantry inside buildings. Funny thing no one mentions that.

Like vickers they are very good when garrisoned.

Maxims is a trash unit in the hands of a trash player...

Oh wait, i know whats comming... "WSTUKA WIPES IT IN NO TIME! / DEATHLOOP BLABLA / SUPPRESSION IS BAD"
Well id say with that logic that shocks are trash units becasause their PPSH cant damage a P4.


The game has some stupid double-morals. That is one of it.

E.g. I would be fine with 3 man HMG42 crew if Vickers and Maxim gets some needed nerfs, like I said some micro handy-caps.

Beside, does someone understand why Tommies get cover bonus, but also Vickers gets it? Shouldn't be the infantry handycaped if the support weapons overperform? Like Grens and Osttruppen are bad in close combat because the HMG is good?

There are many things arn't ok in CoH2. Maybe I start modding again to show other balancing ways, in hope the games becomes more tactical instead of a jump and run.
27 Feb 2020, 13:18 PM
#145
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392



Here’s a joke for you. 4 Volks walk into a Vickers and run away screaming. 4 volks run into a Maxim and recrew it.


The logic? Maxim has enough suppression to stop every solo squad. Flame-nade of Volks is a joke and if they get in range you have enough time to move the Maxim. Maybe you are salty because of cover-use?

The main-problem of Maxim is, that only soviets can use it out of cover with less brain, because 6 men. xD

Changes to be made without dps change:

- Maxim needs old angle, but a defensive mode, setup-time of HMG42 but angle like in garrison.

- 120mm mortar needs a crew of 3 or 4 and range down to 90 (not 100). So Ostheers counter-fire ability of Mortar gets some use.

- HMG42 can also get a crew of 3.
27 Feb 2020, 13:37 PM
#146
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

The logic? Maxim has enough suppression to stop every solo squad.


Maxim goes through a deathloop when multiple squads start firing at it and dies. Really not a hard concept if you actually play coh2.

As for the cover argument, cover is directional.
27 Feb 2020, 14:06 PM
#147
avatar of Musti

Posts: 203



The logic? Maxim has enough suppression to stop every solo squad.

Yeah, like that Pgren squad than ran straight through and threw a nade at it, definitely enough suppresion to stop every squad n the game
Shit I think Obers can just solo it, like they do with a Vickers, gotta test this.
27 Feb 2020, 15:42 PM
#148
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Feb 2020, 14:06 PMMusti

Yeah, like that Pgren squad than ran straight through and threw a nade at it, definitely enough suppresion to stop every squad n the game
Shit I think Obers can just solo it, like they do with a Vickers, gotta test this.


Ober is no normal unit, it is the high DMG unit, more than a sniper to force such situations. The problem with them is that CoH2 has no logical indicators for weaponprofiles and the community team isn't interested in fixing them.

Like Stormtroups MP40 should use the PPsh blueprint and Obers K98 should use G43 blueprint.


And there are situations Maxim sucks, because instead of suppression it benefits of permanent fire with low reload. If you has enough range you will pin, you can't have everything.

Like an other comment said, give it Stats of HMG34 more suppression less DPS. And you know what will happen?It will be a nerf. xD
27 Feb 2020, 15:53 PM
#149
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358



Here’s a joke for you. 4 Volks walk into a Vickers and run away screaming. 4 volks run into a Maxim and recrew it.

Good one, I had a fair laugh.

To the other testa dura, being jerks because they want a Russian mg42 with 6 man to stop 2 obers charging frontally. Use cover and garrison. MAXIM IS A WW1 HMG, IT IS MEANT TO BE THE WORST HMG, DEAL WITH IT OR PLAY OTHER GAME . The unit has its limits, not even the OP M36 can kill two elephants with a single shot. Quit smoking shit

I hate to say it straight but the is no reasoning with madness.
27 Feb 2020, 16:05 PM
#150
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

Well, the MG42 is a ww2 HMG but it’s still the main HMG in multiple 1st world countries today. kappa
27 Feb 2020, 16:33 PM
#151
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

There is an ingame quote of German infantry that says.

Is that a maxim? Stone age! Stoooone age!
27 Feb 2020, 16:35 PM
#152
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

It's a game, but weapons should work like they did in reality.

And HMG42 was a suppression tool, Maxim was it too, but worse. So ingame Maxim does more constant damage, while HMG42 has long reload and bad turning rate.

But actual Maxim overperforms, if you compare the rest of the fraction.

Make a test in cheat-tools and give you some Allii stuff, simply change of Gren with a Penal, or give you some 6men Maxims, you will open your eyes. Or maybe look for some non-doc nuke grenade for every squad? Maybe give you some 120mm or Howitzers. xD
27 Feb 2020, 16:38 PM
#153
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

It's a game, but weapons should work like they did in reality.


Steel Division II is out.


There is an ingame quote of German infantry that says.

Is that a maxim? Stone age! Stoooone age!


Is that the same infantry carrying 1989 era rifles?
27 Feb 2020, 16:42 PM
#154
avatar of Kubelecer

Posts: 403


Good one, I had a fair laugh.

MAXIM IS A WW1 HMG, IT IS MEANT TO BE THE WORST HMG, DEAL WITH IT OR PLAY OTHER GAME .


So is Vickers.

Incredible argument!

Curious, if you want to use HISTORICAL arguments, what's your defence on Ost having Ostwind as a stock unit?
What's your opinion on tigers getting random engine damage when moving? I think they should, it's what happened in WW2 after all.
27 Feb 2020, 16:43 PM
#155
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

I think they were the pgren quotes or the mg42 crewman. Grens voice lines have a particular tone easy to differentiate
27 Feb 2020, 16:46 PM
#156
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358


So is Vickers.

Incredible argument!

Curious, if you want to use HISTORICAL arguments, what's your defence on Ost having Ostwind as a stock unit?
What's your opinion on tigers getting random engine damage when moving? I think they should, it's what happened in WW2 after all.

Of course, the historical data is for flavor and to put into some of the probability dead by idleness neurons in some people.

But you can't deny maxim design is to be the worst at direct fire. But as people here like to say it's trash because they want it to be what it can't be. I want to drive a Maserati but the only I can afford is an used old bike. BLAME THE COMMUNITY!
27 Feb 2020, 16:48 PM
#157
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392


So is Vickers.

Incredible argument!

Curious, if you want to use HISTORICAL arguments, what's your defence on Ost having Ostwind as a stock unit?
What's your opinion on tigers getting random engine damage when moving? I think they should, it's what happened in WW2 after all.


True, give us some Möbelwägen or Wirbelwinds. We have the Ostwind, because Relic didn't made other blueprints.

You can say same about Pershing, Comet, Centaur.

We would have enough stuff to make a more logical tech, if we would mix Ostheer and OKW stuff.
27 Feb 2020, 17:57 PM
#158
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2



Here’s a joke for you. 4 Volks walk into a Vickers and run away screaming. 4 volks run into a Maxim and recrew it.


Those Volks should wait for happy hour. Get some random light cover going around.
27 Feb 2020, 18:15 PM
#159
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

Why do people think that buffing the Maxim or changing the cost will stop it from being the worst MG? You'd have to buff it quite a lot for it to stop being the worst MG, and no one seems to be asking for that (edit: not without drawbacks anyway)...

Changing costs doesn't even come close to changing the dynamic of who has the worst MG
27 Feb 2020, 21:31 PM
#160
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289

Why do people think that buffing the Maxim or changing the cost will stop it from being the worst MG? You'd have to buff it quite a lot for it to stop being the worst MG, and no one seems to be asking for that...

Changing costs doesn't even come close to changing the dynamic of who has the worst MG


Frontaly attacking and winning or outright wiping a maxim is apperently not only intended but a god given right. Because for a while it was op as fuck.
How dare we make reasonable suggestions for the maxim. Shame on us.

On a more serious note.
Its almsot as if people have mds.
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