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Why maxim is trash

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wongtp
27 Feb 2020, 10:39 AM
#141
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jump backJump back to quoted post27 Feb 2020, 09:35 AMdistrofio
Maxims tear apart infantry inside buildings. Funny thing no one mentions that.

Like vickers they are very good when garrisoned.

Maxims is a trash unit in the hands of a trash player...

Oh wait, i know whats comming... "WSTUKA WIPES IT IN NO TIME! / DEATHLOOP BLABLA / SUPPRESSION IS BAD"
Well id say with that logic that shocks are trash units becasause their PPSH cant damage a P4.


Dont be stupid.

What we want is a decent mg. Which means double obers/falls cant just blob up, face tank it at max range and shred it to bits. That is what it means by a decent hmg.

If what you think the strength of a hmg is to park them in a building the whole game. You must not be very good at the game.

Like how mg42 and mg34 absolutely destroys a bad infantry push.
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Katitof
27 Feb 2020, 10:44 AM
#142
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jump backJump back to quoted post27 Feb 2020, 09:35 AMdistrofio
Maxims tear apart infantry inside buildings. Funny thing no one mentions that.

Like vickers they are very good when garrisoned.

Maxims is a trash unit in the hands of a trash player...

Oh wait, i know whats comming... "WSTUKA WIPES IT IN NO TIME! / DEATHLOOP BLABLA / SUPPRESSION IS BAD"
Well id say with that logic that shocks are trash units becasause their PPSH cant damage a P4.

Yes, soft countering garrisons, that's EXACTLY why people pick HMGs. You really went under with your arguments.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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T.R. Stormjäger
27 Feb 2020, 10:47 AM
#143
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Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Feb 2020, 09:35 AMdistrofio
DEATHLOOP BLABLA


Here’s a joke for you. 4 Volks walk into a Vickers and run away screaming. 4 volks run into a Maxim and recrew it.
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Widerstreit
27 Feb 2020, 13:00 PM
#144
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Feb 2020, 09:35 AMdistrofio
Maxims tear apart infantry inside buildings. Funny thing no one mentions that.

Like vickers they are very good when garrisoned.

Maxims is a trash unit in the hands of a trash player...

Oh wait, i know whats comming... "WSTUKA WIPES IT IN NO TIME! / DEATHLOOP BLABLA / SUPPRESSION IS BAD"
Well id say with that logic that shocks are trash units becasause their PPSH cant damage a P4.


The game has some stupid double-morals. That is one of it.

E.g. I would be fine with 3 man HMG42 crew if Vickers and Maxim gets some needed nerfs, like I said some micro handy-caps.

Beside, does someone understand why Tommies get cover bonus, but also Vickers gets it? Shouldn't be the infantry handycaped if the support weapons overperform? Like Grens and Osttruppen are bad in close combat because the HMG is good?

There are many things arn't ok in CoH2. Maybe I start modding again to show other balancing ways, in hope the games becomes more tactical instead of a jump and run.
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Widerstreit
27 Feb 2020, 13:18 PM
#145
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Feb 2020, 10:47 AMT.R. Stormjäger


Here’s a joke for you. 4 Volks walk into a Vickers and run away screaming. 4 volks run into a Maxim and recrew it.


The logic? Maxim has enough suppression to stop every solo squad. Flame-nade of Volks is a joke and if they get in range you have enough time to move the Maxim. Maybe you are salty because of cover-use?

The main-problem of Maxim is, that only soviets can use it out of cover with less brain, because 6 men. xD

Changes to be made without dps change:

- Maxim needs old angle, but a defensive mode, setup-time of HMG42 but angle like in garrison.

- 120mm mortar needs a crew of 3 or 4 and range down to 90 (not 100). So Ostheers counter-fire ability of Mortar gets some use.

- HMG42 can also get a crew of 3.
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T.R. Stormjäger
27 Feb 2020, 13:37 PM
#146
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Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Feb 2020, 13:18 PMWiderstreit
The logic? Maxim has enough suppression to stop every solo squad.


Maxim goes through a deathloop when multiple squads start firing at it and dies. Really not a hard concept if you actually play coh2.

As for the cover argument, cover is directional.
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Musti
27 Feb 2020, 14:06 PM
#147
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Posts: 203

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Feb 2020, 13:18 PMWiderstreit


The logic? Maxim has enough suppression to stop every solo squad.

Yeah, like that Pgren squad than ran straight through and threw a nade at it, definitely enough suppresion to stop every squad n the game
Shit I think Obers can just solo it, like they do with a Vickers, gotta test this.
You can't spell "Power Creep" without REEEEE.
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Widerstreit
27 Feb 2020, 15:42 PM
#148
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Posts: 1392

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Feb 2020, 14:06 PMMusti

Yeah, like that Pgren squad than ran straight through and threw a nade at it, definitely enough suppresion to stop every squad n the game
Shit I think Obers can just solo it, like they do with a Vickers, gotta test this.


Ober is no normal unit, it is the high DMG unit, more than a sniper to force such situations. The problem with them is that CoH2 has no logical indicators for weaponprofiles and the community team isn't interested in fixing them.

Like Stormtroups MP40 should use the PPsh blueprint and Obers K98 should use G43 blueprint.


And there are situations Maxim sucks, because instead of suppression it benefits of permanent fire with low reload. If you has enough range you will pin, you can't have everything.

Like an other comment said, give it Stats of HMG34 more suppression less DPS. And you know what will happen?It will be a nerf. xD
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distrofio
27 Feb 2020, 15:53 PM
#149
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Feb 2020, 10:47 AMT.R. Stormjäger


Here’s a joke for you. 4 Volks walk into a Vickers and run away screaming. 4 volks run into a Maxim and recrew it.

Good one, I had a fair laugh.

To the other testa dura, being jerks because they want a Russian mg42 with 6 man to stop 2 obers charging frontally. Use cover and garrison. MAXIM IS A WW1 HMG, IT IS MEANT TO BE THE WORST HMG, DEAL WITH IT OR PLAY OTHER GAME . The unit has its limits, not even the OP M36 can kill two elephants with a single shot. Quit smoking shit

I hate to say it straight but the is no reasoning with madness.
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T.R. Stormjäger
27 Feb 2020, 16:05 PM
#150
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Well, the MG42 is a ww2 HMG but it’s still the main HMG in multiple 1st world countries today. kappa
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distrofio
27 Feb 2020, 16:33 PM
#151
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

There is an ingame quote of German infantry that says.

Is that a maxim? Stone age! Stoooone age!
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Widerstreit
27 Feb 2020, 16:35 PM
#152
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Posts: 1392

It's a game, but weapons should work like they did in reality.

And HMG42 was a suppression tool, Maxim was it too, but worse. So ingame Maxim does more constant damage, while HMG42 has long reload and bad turning rate.

But actual Maxim overperforms, if you compare the rest of the fraction.

Make a test in cheat-tools and give you some Allii stuff, simply change of Gren with a Penal, or give you some 6men Maxims, you will open your eyes. Or maybe look for some non-doc nuke grenade for every squad? Maybe give you some 120mm or Howitzers. xD
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T.R. Stormjäger
27 Feb 2020, 16:38 PM
#153
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jump backJump back to quoted post27 Feb 2020, 16:35 PMWiderstreit
It's a game, but weapons should work like they did in reality.


Steel Division II is out.


jump backJump back to quoted post27 Feb 2020, 16:33 PMdistrofio
There is an ingame quote of German infantry that says.

Is that a maxim? Stone age! Stoooone age!


Is that the same infantry carrying 1989 era rifles?
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Kubelecer
27 Feb 2020, 16:42 PM
#154
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Posts: 403

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Feb 2020, 15:53 PMdistrofio

Good one, I had a fair laugh.

MAXIM IS A WW1 HMG, IT IS MEANT TO BE THE WORST HMG, DEAL WITH IT OR PLAY OTHER GAME .


So is Vickers.

Incredible argument!

Curious, if you want to use HISTORICAL arguments, what's your defence on Ost having Ostwind as a stock unit?
What's your opinion on tigers getting random engine damage when moving? I think they should, it's what happened in WW2 after all.
jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2016, 11:57 AMJohnnyB
My place in the ladder is irrelevant as long as I am matched with opponents of the same rank and play all factions (balance at place 1000+ is no different from balance in top 100 if we consider what I said before the brakets) so I don't care about your assertion which is also irrelevant.

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distrofio
27 Feb 2020, 16:43 PM
#155
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

I think they were the pgren quotes or the mg42 crewman. Grens voice lines have a particular tone easy to differentiate
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distrofio
27 Feb 2020, 16:46 PM
#156
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Feb 2020, 16:42 PMKubelecer

So is Vickers.

Incredible argument!

Curious, if you want to use HISTORICAL arguments, what's your defence on Ost having Ostwind as a stock unit?
What's your opinion on tigers getting random engine damage when moving? I think they should, it's what happened in WW2 after all.

Of course, the historical data is for flavor and to put into some of the probability dead by idleness neurons in some people.

But you can't deny maxim design is to be the worst at direct fire. But as people here like to say it's trash because they want it to be what it can't be. I want to drive a Maserati but the only I can afford is an used old bike. BLAME THE COMMUNITY!
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Widerstreit
27 Feb 2020, 16:48 PM
#157
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Posts: 1392

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Feb 2020, 16:42 PMKubelecer

So is Vickers.

Incredible argument!

Curious, if you want to use HISTORICAL arguments, what's your defence on Ost having Ostwind as a stock unit?
What's your opinion on tigers getting random engine damage when moving? I think they should, it's what happened in WW2 after all.


True, give us some Möbelwägen or Wirbelwinds. We have the Ostwind, because Relic didn't made other blueprints.

You can say same about Pershing, Comet, Centaur.

We would have enough stuff to make a more logical tech, if we would mix Ostheer and OKW stuff.
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elchino7
27 Feb 2020, 17:57 PM
#158
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jump backJump back to quoted post27 Feb 2020, 10:47 AMT.R. Stormjäger


Here’s a joke for you. 4 Volks walk into a Vickers and run away screaming. 4 volks run into a Maxim and recrew it.


Those Volks should wait for happy hour. Get some random light cover going around.
My controls weren't working
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And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

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SkysTheLimit
27 Feb 2020, 18:15 PM
#159
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Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

Why do people think that buffing the Maxim or changing the cost will stop it from being the worst MG? You'd have to buff it quite a lot for it to stop being the worst MG, and no one seems to be asking for that (edit: not without drawbacks anyway)...

Changing costs doesn't even come close to changing the dynamic of who has the worst MG
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Mr Carmine
27 Feb 2020, 21:31 PM
#160
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Posts: 1289

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Feb 2020, 18:15 PMSkysTheLimit
Why do people think that buffing the Maxim or changing the cost will stop it from being the worst MG? You'd have to buff it quite a lot for it to stop being the worst MG, and no one seems to be asking for that...

Changing costs doesn't even come close to changing the dynamic of who has the worst MG


Frontaly attacking and winning or outright wiping a maxim is apperently not only intended but a god given right. Because for a while it was op as fuck.
How dare we make reasonable suggestions for the maxim. Shame on us.

On a more serious note.
Its almsot as if people have mds.
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