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Commandos vs 222´s

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Sander93
17 Feb 2020, 08:16 AM
#41
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Feb 2020, 23:07 PMLoopDloop
and then back up and engage from long range where their pen drops off and you can win.


Small arms penetration is 1/1/1 for most weapons (all bolt action and semi auto rifles, all SMGs and ARs, with the exception of LMGs) and their accuracy versus vehicles is 100% on all ranges and while moving too. The only difference is that these weapons will have lower DPS because of cooldown and ROF modifiers at range, but in some cases that may be offset by the significant increase of DPS for the vehicle between mid and close range.

In the particular case of Commandos versus 222 it is advantageous to keep distance with the 222 because the Commando Stens have huge ranged cooldown and ROF modifiers, but weapons like the Panzergrenadier STG 44 (they have the same ROF on all distances) deal similar damage to light vehicles on all ranges beyond very close, so against those it can be better to close in more and maximize the LV's DPS.

Though I think parking your LV on top of an SMG/AR squad is a very bad idea in general, because I believe that will give the squad a good chance to get rear armor hits (due to the angles at which they'll fire at the vehicle) which will significantly increase the amount of damage they'll do to the vehicle.
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dreamerdude
17 Feb 2020, 08:29 AM
#42
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Posts: 374

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Feb 2020, 23:41 PMdistrofio
@dreamerdude
20-30 DU are roughly 2 or 3 222s in distance.


I see, that still seems about medium range. also is it just bare commandos? or did they have brens?

it's just a 222 isn't that armoured of a vehicle and i kind of like where it is atm. And my counter-arguement is that well commandos are elite infantry, and they cost a ton of MP bother on normal call in, reinforcing, and upkeep.

Was the 222 showing it's rear armour? was it in the open? was it in negative cover? there are still a lot of things to ask when engaging.

I understand your grief about it, but considering it's cost and stuff i feel like it preforms as it should. idk that's me, i've not played for over a year and a fair bit has changed since i started playing again.

also don't @me, it's not discord so i can't see your reply LOL.
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Katitof
17 Feb 2020, 08:46 AM
#43
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Feb 2020, 08:05 AMullumulu


It is yellow cover..and doesn't even effect all models. 222 has so less AI impact with its paper armor ...a UC with vickers make more dmg..or a dodge with 50.

Yellow cover still gives 0.5 acc modifier..... Meaning that 222 had whooping 4 DPS against them BEFORE considering their own rec acc.

Learn how the game works already, will you?
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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SupremeStefan
17 Feb 2020, 09:22 AM
#44
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1220

But now just imagine commando ambush with piats.. this combo should be banned..
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=429076979 <- check my map
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Vipper
17 Feb 2020, 10:26 AM
#45
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Feb 2020, 02:00 AMT.R. Stormjäger


This would make T0 LVs uncounterable unless faust (Ost) or Raketen (okw). Definitely would prefer a different approach.

Not really. Especially if one just lowered the far penetration of smg.
:)
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Katitof
17 Feb 2020, 11:09 AM
#46
avatar of Katitof

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jump backJump back to quoted post17 Feb 2020, 10:26 AMVipper

Not really. Especially if one just lowered the far penetration of smg.

Penetration is 1.
It can't be any lower then that.

Also, as stated previously, its L2P problem of not keeping the distance from smg units.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Vipper
17 Feb 2020, 11:11 AM
#47
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Feb 2020, 11:09 AMKatitof

Penetration is 1.
It can't be any lower then that.

Why?

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Feb 2020, 11:09 AMKatitof

Also, as stated previously, its L2P problem of not keeping the distance from smg units.

fist firing weapon with low accuracy have very high DPS vs light armored vehicles compared to bolt action weapons. That is a fact and it irrelevant to any other issues.
:)
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Mazianni
17 Feb 2020, 11:13 AM
#48
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 785

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Feb 2020, 11:11 AMVipper

Why?


Infantry armor is still set to 1. A lower penetration value than 1 will "bounce" shots off of infantry models and thusly impact anti-infantry DPS.


Unless you did this via target table, but in that case you can't specifically set the ranges at which penetration is dropped.
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Katitof
17 Feb 2020, 11:15 AM
#49
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jump backJump back to quoted post17 Feb 2020, 11:11 AMVipper

Why?

Since common sense isn't one of your strong sides: Because it would influence every singular infantry engagement if its even possible.


fist firing weapon with low accuracy have very high DPS vs light armored vehicles compared to bolt action weapons. That is a fact and it irrelevant to any other issues.

Exclusively at CLOSE RANGE. Good thing that lights are faster then infantry and have no issue keeping range.
At longer ranges burst durations, aim times and other delays make rifles vastly superior.
Don't park fragile lights on top of SMG infantry.
Again, its L2P positioning issue, not a balance one.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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distrofio
17 Feb 2020, 11:50 AM
#51
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

Because I made this thread for a specific concern that has been already answered and highlighted and because I dislike people that start up fights for no apparent reason, I want to close the thread already.

The op was, or at least tried to be, simple and clear, a light vehicle (that is t2 and should be armored) was receiving too much damage frontally, at medium range, from AI specialists. SMG bearing AI specialists. The details were given and as kind as the correct manners were used and I cooperated as much as I could.

I think it's easy to spot those who willingly derail conversations because of their personal postures to others and their own bias. There was no room for such people here, specially because this was not an UP/OP thread. Those people acted like trolls for no other reason that their will.

Having said that this discussion is ended. Please a mod consider closing it. Further discussions of the topic should be made on different threads.

Thanks to those who helped to find the mechanics behind this odd situation and those who answered and stayed on topic.
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Vipper
17 Feb 2020, 11:51 AM
#52
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Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Feb 2020, 11:13 AMMazianni


Infantry armor is still set to 1. A lower penetration value than 1 will "bounce" shots off of infantry models and thusly impact anti-infantry DPS.


Unless you did this via target table, but in that case you can't specifically set the ranges at which penetration is dropped.

1) read the suggestion lower armor higher accuracy. DPS remain the same vs infatry but lower vs vehicles.
2) if it the far penetration one will not even notice the difference because SMG have low far DPS vs infatry
:)
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Vipper
17 Feb 2020, 12:44 PM
#53
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Feb 2020, 11:15 AMKatitof

Since common sense isn't one of your strong sides: Because it would influence every singular infantry engagement if its even possible.

Actually common sense is not your strong sides.

First of all it possible so it can be done "Penetration is 1. It can't be any lower then that." contrary to your claim.

Read the suggestions again, I said lower far penetration and increases accuracy so the DPS remains the same. That would non consequential impact to infatry engagements contrary to your claim.

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Feb 2020, 11:15 AMKatitof

Exclusively at CLOSE RANGE. Good thing that lights are faster then infantry and have no issue keeping range.
At longer ranges burst durations, aim times and other delays make rifles vastly superior.
Don't park fragile lights on top of SMG infantry.
Again, its L2P positioning issue, not a balance one.

The DPS of fast firing lower accuracy weapons depend on many factor and that is why R.E. where so much better than riflemen vs kubels.

And Shock troops have almost double DPS vs 222 than conscript at range 20.


:)
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FelixTHM
17 Feb 2020, 13:48 PM
#54
avatar of FelixTHM

Posts: 503 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Feb 2020, 21:12 PMLatch


How is asking for video proof trolling? How long does it take to kill the 222, whats the difference if the 222 is closer/further away. You might hate on my posts but at least they have videos that demonstrate the issue and not just "Take my word for it!".



Your videos are three enemy squads ambushing your low health squad running across a red cover retreat path and you somehow extrapolating that into "opponent's thing is OP". The only things your videos proved were that you were terrible.

"Just take my word for it" is actually more effective/reasonable than the videos you provided.

I believe G43s moving acc needs to be seriously toned down, but your videos were so bad that they pointed everyone in the opposite direction.
https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198011657296
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Latch
17 Feb 2020, 14:34 PM
#55
avatar of Latch

Posts: 773

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Feb 2020, 13:48 PMFelixTHM



Your videos are three enemy squads ambushing your low health squad running across a red cover retreat path and you somehow extrapolating that into "opponent's thing is OP". The only things your videos proved were that you were terrible.

"Just take my word for it" is actually more effective/reasonable than the videos you provided.

I believe G43s moving acc needs to be seriously toned down, but your videos were so bad that they pointed everyone in the opposite direction.


Yup, all of them mate, 100% of my videos show a 5 second clip that you can nitpick on and claim that because of X then its fine. If you don't like me (to which, I honestly cound give a flying fuck) which seems clear, message me this, dont derail a seperate thread because you are obsessed with me and part of a video I upladed a while ago.
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elchino7
17 Feb 2020, 16:39 PM
#56
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Feb 2020, 11:50 AMdistrofio
Because I made this thread for a specific concern that has been already answered and highlighted and because I dislike people that start up fights for no apparent reason, I want to close the thread already.

The op was, or at least tried to be, simple and clear, a light vehicle (that is t2 and should be armored) was receiving too much damage frontally, at medium range, from AI specialists. SMG bearing AI specialists. The details were given and as kind as the correct manners were used and I cooperated as much as I could.

I think it's easy to spot those who willingly derail conversations because of their personal postures to others and their own bias. There was no room for such people here, specially because this was not an UP/OP thread. Those people acted like trolls for no other reason that their will.

Having said that this discussion is ended. Please a mod consider closing it. Further discussions of the topic should be made on different threads.

Thanks to those who helped to find the mechanics behind this odd situation and those who answered and stayed on topic.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.

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