Mainline infantry sandbags change

Jump back to quoted post18 Feb 2020, 23:55 PMVipper

And there is little reason for IS to be able to built heavy cover in first place.

Part of the reason why IS are hard to balance is that every engagement vs IS was in a crucial area of the map vs heavy after which IS could simply heal up again. Without sandbags available to them they would have to use the cover available in the map as other mainline infatry.

Jump back to quoted post19 Feb 2020, 03:19 AMLatch

UKF are already gimped by being unable to wire off until tech up, removing sandbags from them would render maps that have no cover especially on important areas an immediate veto for a faction that revolves around cover.

Jump back to quoted post19 Feb 2020, 03:19 AMLatch

UKF are already gimped by being unable to wire off until tech up, removing sandbags from them would render maps that have no cover especially on important areas an immediate veto for a faction that revolves around cover.

You want to solve this "issue", make it unable to have green cover created inside capture areas, instead being able to upgrade the capure area with defences for a cost, that way, you lose it, you give dences to the enemy.

Jump back to quoted post18 Feb 2020, 23:55 PMVipper

And there is little reason for IS to be able to built heavy cover in first place.

Part of the reason why IS are hard to balance is that every engagement vs IS was in a crucial area of the map vs heavy after which IS could simply heal up again. Without sandbags available to them they would have to use the cover available in the map as other mainline infatry.

Jump back to quoted post19 Feb 2020, 12:33 PMSuperHansFan

It's nice to see you changed your outlook and since the old Tommy pyro thread. So now I take it you agree with me that most players will keep med upgrades? And not every player will spam pyro like the doomsayers predicted.

Jump back to quoted post19 Feb 2020, 12:28 PMSuperHansFan

You have people that complain about blobbing and then they post complaining about infantry that can build cover and effectively use it...

I'm sorry but if bags gets removed or "timed" all you'll see is massed blobs roaming the map slamming into each other. Moving it to engies is not the answer because as it stands USF hardly use tank traps for green cover compared to other factions.

The only winners of this change will be blobbing USF players that have their infantry balanced around the fact they don't need cover like Tommy, cons, ostruppen or even volks do.

Jump back to quoted post16 Feb 2020, 00:31 AMdistrofio

Since mainline infantries like Volks,cons, IS, riflemen (doctrinally) and grens (bunkers) are able to build their own cover the mechanic is kind of important to simply remove it.

Therefore instead of removing the ability i would like to prupose a change, into a more defensive theme.

Except for cons and grens, Instead of "building" sandbags (like engineers do) they now "spawn" a single, circular sandbag pile big enough to cover at least 3 or 4 models, like the ones in the capture points. This skill will have a big enough cooldown and will have a time to set up aswell.

Thoughs?

Jump back to quoted post19 Feb 2020, 18:31 PMdistrofio

How do you really back up your argument? I mean i can say anything unrelated and even picture a doom and what i just did was not even an aswer. There are always bad cases and the worst players often exploit it but by no means those players decide what balance actually is.

Sandbags being limited will force a more strategical perspective on the game. If you like to blob like a maniac someone waiting calmly in green cover should rape the crap out of that blob. This change brings another step into a more skill rewarding gameplay. Blobs will always exist and mostly on low skill players or on unbalanced cheese infantry.

I will repeat my suggestion, mainlines should not build GREEN cover but dig shallow trenches, that provide light cover. It shouldnt be too hard to code, its just a feature to the map, like a crater but with directional cover. A trench can be or can not be destroyed when trampled (it should be though) and infantry can past on top of it without vaulting. This gives green conver more value

Jump back to quoted post19 Feb 2020, 13:44 PMVipper

I have not and pls stop making personal post.

I have post my point of view with clarity:
1) Sand bag on mainline infatry is bad because it promotes spamming a "single do it all unit". Player should be encouraged to use different units via utility and sandbags is such a utility. Imo the same should apply for all mainline infatry including IS.

2) IS have proven difficult to balance so far because of that utility. Up until recently they where able to create they own cover and self-heal for free meaning that they could defend until the enemy used multiple squad to dislodge them at which point they could simply retreat.

By removing their ability to built heavy cover that would be no longer the case and thus they could be adjusted if needed. That change would promote bigger use of Ro.E. which is a good thing.

Feel free to ask me for any clarification instead of trying to present your version of what I have posted. Thanks in advance.

Jump back to quoted post21 Feb 2020, 05:35 AMSuperHansFan

If you claim one unit shouldn't do everything then why are you claiming RE should have more roles?

Jump back to quoted post21 Feb 2020, 05:35 AMSuperHansFan

Especially when you oppose new units like officer providing CQB role.

Jump back to quoted post21 Feb 2020, 05:35 AMSuperHansFan

Your logic is flawed unless you want a return of RE spam. They are already the most overworked RE unit in utility, having to be the snare carrier shielding units from vehicles,building and repairing emplacement, only unit suitable for PIAT, as well as usual engie job of mine laying and sweeping, repairing vehicles, clearing wire etc. This is way more than other engies deal with and having your only snare carrier building sandbags while you have a luch on the field is just a bad idea and design.

But on top of this you want to make them a CQB assault specialist and have them building sandbags across the map.

It seems unreasonable to burden one unit with so many roles while Tommies don't even have the utility of snare like grens do.

Jump back to quoted post22 Feb 2020, 15:16 PMdistrofio

It seems to some people that 2 squads of pgren is a tactical command blob. I will simply address this as a detriment of a valid argument for a balanced and strategic wise gameplay.

Of course UKF will no longer have ez green cover but this game has 5 factions to balance, not 1.

Yellow cover is good enough in early game and not as necessary in late game because of craters. Green cover on the other side will be the most valuable and engagements will occur around it.

This also praises good map designers

Jump back to quoted post23 Feb 2020, 02:30 AMMazianni

All natural green cover basically vanishes from the game by the 15 minute mark though.

The current sandbag system works fine, and removing it from UKF of all factions seem silly considering their infantry are otherwise handicapped and their engineers don't even come out until t1.

Jump back to quoted post24 Feb 2020, 20:49 PMSkysTheLimit

IS probably need sandbags the most, although new patch seems to be making them less cover dependent if the changes go through

Jump back to quoted post24 Feb 2020, 23:19 PMdistrofio

RE exist for a reason, like pios for grens.

Jump back to quoted post24 Feb 2020, 23:19 PMdistrofio

The map has plenty green cover at the start, no need for ultrafast RE sandbags.

Jump back to quoted post24 Feb 2020, 23:19 PMdistrofio

IS is not UP and does not need "that much love" having to protect their precious SB...