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russian armor

IS cover bonus and Pyro

2 Feb 2020, 18:09 PM
#21
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358



Can Tommies throw flares?
Can Tommies have the longest range vehicle snare in the game?
Can Tommies sprint with Vet?
Can someone survive the first few minutes against a well played sniper using only tommies for mainline?

Can grens receive bonus status in cover?
Can grens buy handheld AT?
Can grens get an extra man stock?
Can someone survive the first minutes against a well played sniper using only grens for mainline?
2 Feb 2020, 19:38 PM
#22
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8


Can grens receive lower status out of cover?

Fixed this one for ya.
2 Feb 2020, 19:44 PM
#23
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358


Fixed this one for ya.

The whole point was to make a bunch of nonsense questions, it's not that hard, try it.

You can lower the status out of cover if you beforehand raise it to match up when in cover, c'mon it does not demand a genius to see that
5 Feb 2020, 01:58 AM
#24
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053



Pfusiliers also need a nerf. I don’t understand why they keep being thrown around like some kind of benchmark unit.

Well yeah this is true.
9 Feb 2020, 03:38 AM
#25
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794


Additionally, the new HQ medic squad will have poor healing, meant to be barely adequate to occasionally heal a support squad and allow non IS-heavy builds to function, but not enough to completely substitute healing IS. I do not expect to see a huge increase in pyrotechnics upgrades.


Tightrope demo the healing on our behalf.
So it needs a little micro tax BUT the manual healing is FAST
The auto aoe heal while slow, seems to stack with manual healing for ultra fast 'free' healing!

21m mark
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHCZntDLfOA
9 Feb 2020, 03:51 AM
#26
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833

It's not really comparable to rifle smoke

Rifle smoke even if his MG repositioned you could smoke it and follow up directly with another smoke grenade. In effect smoke spamming your way through defensive lines.Pyro has a global cooldown so you can't use it or regular arty after that first drop. You have to be more selective.

As for vippers argument of upgrading every squad with pyro, this is a pointless strategy. Brens and grenades will always be preferable, with a single pyro mixed in for the smoke utility. Anything more is a waste due to the global cooldown.

As it stands you don't get the LoS bonus that's really beneficial until vet, and current HQ medics are buggy and don't really heal squads 100% or sometimes heal them at all. So no I disagree in your theory craft of pyro meta.

I imagine we will still see a lot of medic upgrades, because tommies staple ability of being able to heal in the field is better than extra LoS in cover.

9 Feb 2020, 04:00 AM
#27
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

It's not really comparable to rifle smoke

Rifle smoke even if his MG repositioned you could smoke it and follow up directly with another smoke grenade. In effect smoke spamming your way through defensive lines.

Pyro has a global cooldown so you can't use it or regular arty after that first drop. You have to be more selective.

As for vippers argument of upgrading every squad with pyro, this is a pointless strategy. Brens and grenades will always be preferable, with a single pyro mixed in for the smoke utility. Anything more is a waste due to the global cooldown.

As it stands you don't get the LoS bonus that's really beneficial until vet, and current HQ medics are buggy and don't really heal squads 100% or sometimes heal them at all. So no I disagree in your theory craft if pyro meta



Also tightrope tested the smoke, it drops 3 smoke and last quite long.

Getting IS to vet1 is super easy and part of any game.

I dont think it is fair a stock squad at vet1 has more sight than sniper unit or a scout car. Both of which needs a little more effort to vet than IS.

Looking at the healing medic, is there a need to get med upgrade on IS now? Isnt it more utility to get arty+smoke?

I wonder if you can move the base medics out of base into the battle? lolwut!
9 Feb 2020, 04:06 AM
#28
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833



Also tightrope tested the smoke, it drops 3 smoke and last quite long.

Getting IS to vet1 is super easy and part of any game.

I dont think it is fair a stock squad at vet1 has more sight than sniper unit or a scout car. Both of which needs a little more effort to vet than IS.

Looking at the healing medic, is there a need to get med upgrade on IS now? Isnt it more utility to get arty+smoke?

I wonder if you can move the base medics out of base into the battle? lolwut!


If you watched that tightrope video you would also realize how trash the HQ medics are and how they didn't even perform their own role correctly.

As for LoS, it's never going to be every "stock squad" for reasons I just typed. I mean you can waste muni on upgrading all your sections early to pyro if you want, but I'll just sit here spamming StG volks and out trade you and self heal for free with vet anyway.

Simply this argument of four or five squads all with full pyro los bonus at vet1 is groundless. It doesn't make any sense to prioritize over brens or medics.

9 Feb 2020, 04:12 AM
#29
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794



If you watched that tightrope video you would also realize how trash the HQ medics are and how they didn't even perform their own role correctly.

As for LoS, it's never going to be every "stock squad" for reasons I just typed. I mean you can waste muni on upgrading all your sections if you want, but I'll just sit here spamming StG volks and out trade you and self heal for free with vet anyway.

Simply this argument of four or five squads all with full pyro los bonus at vet1 is groundless. It doesn't make any sense to prioritize over brens or medics.



It is not trash thats why im surprised sanders said it was.

Auto AOE is not as good, but just a simple manual click that stacks with auto AOE...I think it is surprisingly deadly.

Can we move it out of base or even move it to heal your team mates in base?

Again the manual healing is FAST.

I believe you can get brens AND pyro los bonus no? So the argument is correct..

Imagine 3 IS squads with that bonus sight, Ukf can see everything. (Normally i wont go above 3 IS squads).

Of course in team games, we may get a lot more IS squads. lolwut!
9 Feb 2020, 04:16 AM
#30
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833



It is not trash thats why im surprised sanders said it was.

Auto AOE is not as good, but just a simple manual click that stacks with auto AOE...I think it is surprisingly deadly.

Can we move it out of base or even move it to heal your team mates in base?

Again the manual healing is FAST.


Literally watch the video again, models outside of the radious just didn't get healed correctly.

Why would I build HQ medics that can't heal unless I manually micro every squad? Every other faction can just retreat to HQ and they are healed.

As I say half of the theory crafting ITT are simply just that, theory crafting. Medic upgrades for two or three Tommies is still mandatory unless medics get some big changes.
9 Feb 2020, 04:31 AM
#31
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

It is not theory crafting. Im just calling out what i see. And what i see clearly is medics heal FAST, faster than i was expecting.

Yes other faction retreat to base medic and let auto aoe heal.
But other faction can upgrade stock infantry with arty+smoke+super vet sight?

Thats the issue we are raising no?

Gif is at 50% framerates. Dat' stacked speed.
9 Feb 2020, 04:40 AM
#32
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

I think people raised a fair time raptor ponder

IF Ukf can build base medics now,
IF pyro upgrade can drop smoke now,
SINCE pyro comes with great sight bonus,
Isn't it better to go pyro now?
NO, base medics suck balls
/watches tightrope base medic demo.
lolwut!
9 Feb 2020, 05:23 AM
#33
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833

It is not theory crafting. Im just calling out what i see. And what i see clearly is medics heal FAST, faster than i was expecting.

Yes other faction retreat to base medic and let auto aoe heal.
But other faction can upgrade stock infantry with arty+smoke+super vet sight?

Thats the issue we are raising no?

Gif is at 50% framerates. Dat' stacked speed.


You're literally proving my point

No top player will pick HQ medics and micro them individually with each separate squad when instead they can tap two hotkeys repeatedly and heal infantry once reinforced out of base with Tommy meds.

You can sit in base playing your healing mini game while your opponent is actually using his attention on the map.

9 Feb 2020, 05:35 AM
#34
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

wut? If anything, it is the top players that will abuse the fast manual medics healing.

stacked healing, tactical map, hotkeys, queued commands, extra sight, extra mines...

we are going in circles. Im convinced of it, you are convinced that. Im pointing out the FAST stacked manual medic healing.

We shall see in live games if this goes through then.
9 Feb 2020, 05:39 AM
#35
avatar of srider

Posts: 34

While I wouldn't consider myself to be a top player, but I do hotkey HQ medics and use its AOE heal ability to compensate for its lacking auto heal capabilities. I also use the unit to back cap, which is a big deal imo.
9 Feb 2020, 05:41 AM
#36
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Feb 2020, 05:39 AMsrider
While I wouldn't consider myself to be a top player, but I do hotkey HQ medics and use its AOE heal ability to compensate for its lacking auto heal capabilities. I also use the unit to back cap, which is a big deal imo.


Interesting. So we can move the medics out of base to continue healing squads in battle, not to mention capping...

Whoa thats bring new question to its fast manual healing..aside from pyro sight..

9 Feb 2020, 08:00 AM
#37
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

Tightrope demo the healing on our behalf.
So it needs a little micro tax BUT the manual healing is FAST
The auto aoe heal while slow, seems to stack with manual healing for ultra fast 'free' healing!

21m mark
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHCZntDLfOA


Yes, I know they currently heal too fast. That's because they haven't been tuned at all yet.
9 Feb 2020, 08:24 AM
#38
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1



Yes, I know they currently heal too fast. That's because they haven't been tuned at all yet.

And they can also cap.

The idea of a healing squad is probable problematic just use base medic and adjust they speed as seen fit.
9 Feb 2020, 09:47 AM
#39
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Feb 2020, 08:24 AMVipper
And they can also cap.

The idea of a healing squad is probable problematic just use base medic and adjust they speed as seen fit.


The gameplay advantages (for what we are trying to achieve) of the squad requiring extra micro and costing popcap are definitely worth the disadvantage of the squad being able to cap a point on rare occasions.
9 Feb 2020, 10:02 AM
#40
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1



The gameplay advantages (for what we are trying to achieve) of the squad requiring extra micro and costing popcap are definitely worth the disadvantage of the squad being able to cap a point on rare occasions.

Imo you are fully understand the impact of being able to cap. One of the UKF weak points is cap speed. Proving an early cheap unit that can cap is a considerable buff to the UKF faction.

In addition there is no reason for the unit to able to cap or at least cap at normal speed.

I am not sure what you are trying to achieve but the current implementation is problematic. I guess we need a more clear explanation of goals and your ideas of how to implement it.

IMO adding micro to balance units is a step in the wrong direction if that is plan anyway.
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