Winter balance (1/2020) feedback - Ostheer
5 Feb 2020, 15:53 PM
#21
Posts: 1527
Permanently BannedYeah the relief infantry and conscription abilities are absolutely worthless trash. They've both been nerfed to the ground.
"I wish THQ was still alive and made CoH2. Ostheer for life."
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5 Feb 2020, 16:31 PM
#22
Posts: 3260
Yeah the relief infantry and conscription abilities are absolutely worthless trash. They've both been nerfed to the ground.
And even before that they were a weird, sort of distasteful ability. Get extra troops by ordering your current ones to commit pointless suicide!
They should replace them with a reworked (read: not more expensive than buying two Ostruppen squads manually) Ostruppen Reserves.
5 Feb 2020, 16:38 PM
#23
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Relief Infantry does not require pointless suicide. You can activate it for a minute and then just fight normally. You will take casualties anyway.
5 Feb 2020, 16:40 PM
#24
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
And even before that they were a weird, sort of distasteful ability. Get extra troops by ordering your current ones to commit pointless suicide!
They should replace them with a reworked (read: not more expensive than buying two Ostruppen squads manually) Ostruppen Reserves.
What I'd like to see:
Reworked Osttruppen Reserves for Lightning War (not too effective).
AT-rifle Osttruppen for Mobile Defense (if Puma doesn't get any major changes) and Festung Support.
5 Feb 2020, 16:48 PM
#25
Posts: 3260
What I'd like to see:
Reworked Osttruppen Reserves for Lightning War (not too effective).
AT-rifle Osttruppen for Mobile Defense (if Puma doesn't get any major changes) and Festung Support
With the new changes to Battle Phase 2, I think it's time for the CP5 Puma Command Car.
5 Feb 2020, 17:04 PM
#26
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
With the new changes to Battle Phase 2, I think it's time for the CP5 Puma Command Car.
Yeah, it's even more necessary since BP2 became 105 fuel.
There have been enough changes to try 5 CP Puma again:
- Cooldown timer on call-in vehicles if destroyed.
- CP4 requires tech now, so no techless AI vehicle to follow up.
- Panzer Tactician could be exchanged for Stuka Smoke drop to reduce FHT + Puma synergy.
And if that's not enough, you could still limit the Puma to 1.
A smaller adjustment to Osttruppen Reserves like bringing them down to 2 CP for 375-400 mp with 0% chance of an LMG would be better in that case.
5 Feb 2020, 17:08 PM
#27
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
.
There have been enough changes to try 5 CP Puma again:
..
or one can simply add a "tech" button for all commander vehicles (maybe not for WC51) so that one can adjust the timing and cost accordingly.
5 Feb 2020, 17:27 PM
#28
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
or one can simply add a "tech" button for all commander vehicles (maybe not for WC51) so that one can adjust the timing and cost accordingly.
It would need a hefty tech cost associated with it or Ostheer would roflstomp early vehicles like the AEC and Greyhound.
I've heard Sander suggest just putting the Puma into T2 could work, so it would arrive around the same time as OKW getting it as first vehicle, but I think Ostheer with an early Puma is much scarier than OKW with an early Puma.
I honestly think a 5 CP requirement would be best.
5 Feb 2020, 18:00 PM
#29
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
It would need a hefty tech cost associated with it or Ostheer would roflstomp early vehicles like the AEC and Greyhound.
...
Not really. The button could have what ever requirement are necessary (BP1, T2, BP3) and serve more a time delay than anything else. Actually the unit could become build-able from HQ so that it does not instantly appear. The current call-in system is simply a mess as demonstrated in 2 threads and imo there should be an effort to tied up a bit:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/103619/why-panzerfusiliers-are-buildable
https://www.coh2.org/topic/103644/doctrinal-vehicles-spawning-system
For instance Ostheer call-in vehicles could all follow the Panzer IV J/250 solution and become building able from HQ. If there is a need to adjust cost or timing a "tech" button for this vehicles would serve that role.
5 Feb 2020, 18:44 PM
#30
Posts: 563
Relief Infantry does not require pointless suicide. You can activate it for a minute and then just fight normally. You will take casualties anyway.
That might have been the thing when it had twice longer active period. Current one last only minutes and requires 5 models lost instead of old 4. This makes it hard to utilize in such role, only being useful as panic press when your clumped up units get barraged by katysha.
I kinda wish it could get its 4 models lost requirement back to help at least a bit.
"Pain is almost euphoric sam!"
5 Feb 2020, 18:59 PM
#31
Posts: 3260
I've heard Sander suggest just putting the Puma into T2 could work, so it would arrive around the same time as OKW getting it as first vehicle, but I think Ostheer with an early Puma is much scarier than OKW with an early Puma.
Wouldn't that instantly resurrect the Mobidef Meta? It's a huge enabler for T2 heavy builds.
5 Feb 2020, 19:06 PM
#32
Posts: 4474
Yea puma got another nail in the coffin
Just put it between grey hound and valentine CP
Why can they come with CP but not puma ?
Not that it would save the doc with the command p4 nerfs
Just put it between grey hound and valentine CP
Why can they come with CP but not puma ?
Not that it would save the doc with the command p4 nerfs
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
5 Feb 2020, 20:15 PM
#33
Posts: 732
What I'd like to see:
Reworked Osttruppen Reserves for Lightning War (not too effective).
AT-rifle Osttruppen for Mobile Defense (if Puma doesn't get any major changes) and Festung Support.
For lightning war I think replace it by 250/1 HT or breakthrough equipment more better？
5 Feb 2020, 20:17 PM
#34
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
For lightning war I think replace it by 250/1 HT or breakthrough equipment more better？
Would be too strong, Lightning War is already a meta doctrine. It would be better to add the 250/1 to Festung Support if you had to.
5 Feb 2020, 20:39 PM
#35
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Yea puma got another nail in the coffin
Just put it between grey hound and valentine CP
Why can they come with CP but not puma ?
Not that it would save the doc with the command p4 nerfs
Because panic puma meta.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
5 Feb 2020, 20:44 PM
#36
Posts: 4474
great answer, where is panic grey hound and valentine
Because panic puma meta.
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
5 Feb 2020, 21:03 PM
#37
Posts: 732
Would be too strong, Lightning War is already a meta doctrine. It would be better to add the 250/1 to Festung Support if you had to.
Maybe，but I thought other problem is Ostruppen too weak，maybe should remove them accuracy debuff and in cover buff，and give them more RA bonus，now what they can do only to death,7men Consript only need 1 more MP but you know....
5 Feb 2020, 21:44 PM
#38
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
PLS consider increasing the reinforcement speed of the officer it is too slow.
5 Feb 2020, 23:17 PM
#39
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
Maybe，but I thought other problem is Ostruppen too weak，maybe should remove them accuracy debuff and in cover buff，and give them more RA bonus，now what they can do only to death,7men Consript only need 1 more MP but you know....
They're balanced in the early and midgame, their performance there shouldn't be touched. Once lategame arrives they become unable to do anything and I start regretting going Osttruppen.
Don't think it would be a bad idea to make them a bit painful to use in the lategame. Either of these changes would help:
- 75% accuracy modifier for the LMG42 instead of 50%, cost from 45 to 60 munitions.
- Accuracy debuff out of cover removed once they reach vet 3.
They would remain the worst scaling mainlines with either of these changes, but require a bit less babysitting to get some use out of them. Currently the best idea is keeping them near a trench once Allies have double lmg / 7 men upgrade, don't even bother sidecapping because you'Il regret it.
6 Feb 2020, 05:24 AM
#40
Posts: 785
great answer, where is panic grey hound and valentine
Post-nerf Greyhound can lose vs a 222. You may not believe me, test it. Main gun on it is pretty well useless versus vehicles now. 100% worthless versus tanks. Because of this there really isn't any 'panic' reason to buy it.
Valentine, IDK. If I had to guess it'd be for a similar reason albeit vs tanks; the AEC does that job better.
TBH I feel like you could get away with putting the Puma in the light mechanized company building. I'm not sure it would upset things too much. Unit is still relatively expensive after all.
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