Panzerfüssiliers balance

Jump back to quoted post27 Jan 2020, 11:21 AMVipper

When did that happen?

Paying 80 mu for 2 g43 would make it one of the worse upgrade in game...

And as I have pointed out usage of PF in the last tournament indicates that PF are UP in their role as alternative mainline.

But this thread is about their snare and not their overall balance.

Jump back to quoted post27 Jan 2020, 12:25 PMblvckdream

Panzerfüssiliers UP now? I have heard it all on COH2.org.

I wonder what Vipper's opinion was if Panzerfüssiliers were an Allied unit.

So just to summarize: a unit that has 6 man, 3 G43s, longest snare in coh2, grenade without call out, flare, sprint, cheap reinforce cost and overall much stronger combat performance than Volks are considered UP.

Vipper time and time argues that Penals are OP but at the same time thinks Panzerfüssiliers, which are objectively just better, are UP. This must be the absolute definition of ridiculous double standards.

Jump back to quoted post27 Jan 2020, 13:08 PMT.R. Stormjäger

The issue is chasedown wipes, not DPS.

Jump back to quoted post27 Jan 2020, 13:09 PMblvckdream

And btw what I want is the reduction of the snare range and not overall Panzerfüssilier nerfs. Not sure why this thread was opened in the first place.

Jump back to quoted post27 Jan 2020, 13:06 PMblvckdream

Because in 1v1 early infantry engagements matter a lot more than any other game mode and because Penal M3 builds weren't used much.

Jump back to quoted post27 Jan 2020, 13:06 PMblvckdream

In 2v2 Füssiliers blobs are absolute meta because scalability >>> first 10 minutes of the game.

Jump back to quoted post27 Jan 2020, 14:03 PMVipper

Even if that is true being used in a certain mode does not mean that the is good int role as alternative mainline infatry

Jump back to quoted post27 Jan 2020, 14:20 PMSander93

The fact that the new Panzerfusiliers are used extensively in 3/4 modes and less so in 1/4 modes seems to disprove your point. They are very popular in 3v3s and 4v4s too.

Jump back to quoted post27 Jan 2020, 14:23 PMVipper

2) Are they used more than Penals?

Jump back to quoted post27 Jan 2020, 14:24 PMKatitof

Would you like an in-depth explanation on why a doctrinal unit that isn't in 100% of doctrines might be used less frequently then stock unit, but still be used frequently?

Jump back to quoted post27 Jan 2020, 14:23 PMVipper

1) Do you have stats about that? How many are built and how many VG are built?
?

Jump back to quoted post27 Jan 2020, 14:34 PMullumulu

from all commander inf sqaud...panzerf are not in the top class...they are in mid class since there are shocks, rangers, commandos etc etc

Jump back to quoted post27 Jan 2020, 14:31 PMSander93

No stats, but in 2v2s, 3v3s and occasionally 4v4s I always see them used at least every other game. Sometimes every game, depending on how many OKW players there are.

Jump back to quoted post27 Jan 2020, 14:31 PMSander93

I don't see what the popularity of Penals has to do with Panzerfusiliers.

Jump back to quoted post27 Jan 2020, 14:31 PMSander93

And neither does it matter how many Panzerfusiliers are used compared to Volksgrenadiers, because it was exactly the point of their new design that they should supplement Volksgrenadiers rather than replace them, which is why they lack some crucial utility (anti garrison, salvage, sandbags, stock firepower) but bring unique utility themselves (early snare, recon, AT upgrade, scalability).

Jump back to quoted post27 Jan 2020, 13:57 PMVipper

Numbers do not seem to support you claim
Moving DPS 20/35
Penals
10.5/6.3
PF
11.6/7.6

110%/120% more for 80 munition does not seem a good investment. Again 2 G43 for 80 munition would make the upgrade and unit not worth it.

Jump back to quoted post27 Jan 2020, 15:18 PMBlueKnight

It's 3 G43s not 2. Also PFs carry majority of their moving DPS on just these 3 G43 models so their DPS drops less with the number of models in the squad going down. For example if Penals lose 3 models, they lose 50% DPS which is not true for PFs.

Jump back to quoted post27 Jan 2020, 15:08 PMVipper

Again it does because the hole point of the redesign was to become a "replacement" of VG and not a "supplement".

OKW - Grand Offensive

Panzerfusilliers
The way Panzerfusiliers are deployed has been changed…
[…]
This should make for interesting choices and compositions.