Panzerfüssilier snare range

oh..u mean like a panel could throw a satchel over 100m to a fast forward driving tank....only because he was 1sek in range of his max trow range? And then the satchel fly with magical accuracy..even in curve and trough houses to the tank and never misses and never fall from the tank ? do you mean this magic?

Or heat seaking Panzerfausts?

Some things can't be helped as far as gameplay mechanics are concerned. But the 80-90% movement accuracy meme with half the G-43s in this game - all of them scoped, and all using the exact same gfx as the sniper rifle - is just stupid, and doesn't really reflect any aspect of reality in the slightest.

Or heat seaking Panzerfausts?

Some things can't be helped as far as gameplay mechanics are concerned. But the 80-90% movement accuracy meme with half the G-43s in this game - all of them scoped, and all using the exact same gfx as the sniper rifle - is just stupid, and doesn't really reflect any aspect of reality in the slightest.

blobb USF scoped inf and you have the same. G43 arent the only weapon with this crit abilty. Other faction has this too and u only need to blobb them.

blobb USF scoped inf and you have the same. G43 arent the only weapon with this crit abilty. Other faction has this too and u only need to blobb them.

Scoped garands have 0.1 moving accuracy multiplier.
G43s have 0.8.

ullu being ullu

Scoped garands have 0.1 moving accuracy multiplier.
G43s have 0.8.

ullu being ullu

cat he mean'ts the scopepd g43 he migh have confused the wepaon profiels (aster all he says crit, but only scoped version can crit)

blobb USF scoped inf and you have the same. G43 arent the only weapon with this crit abilty. Other faction has this too and u only need to blobb them.

We're not even talking about the same G43 now. That's the JLI G43. I'm referring to the 'standard' ones grens and fusiliers get. And no, M1 Garand movement accuracy isn't comparable, scoped or unscoped - it also suffers a cooldown penalty. AFAIK the only weapon with a comparable movement DPS curve is the guards mosin nagant, a weapon which is on a squad with virtually no moving DPS otherwise and which isn't scoped or perplexingly firing sniper trail tracers every time.

You should probably quit trying to die on this hill and get back to the thread's main topic if you can't provide anything valuable to this one.

As it is I regret bringing this up now that it is bound to fall into another bout of axis mains falling over themselves to find something semantical - and entirely off topic - to obsess over for 40 posts.

cat he mean'ts the scopepd g43 he migh have confused the wepaon profiels (aster all he says crit, but only scoped version can crit)

Its a PF thread, he quoted post about PFs, he is responding to PFs G43 movine accuracy.
Only USF unit with scopes is scoped garands on umm... PFs.

He is indeed very confused.

Or heat seaking Panzerfausts?

Some things can't be helped as far as gameplay mechanics are concerned. But the 80-90% movement accuracy meme with half the G-43s in this game - all of them scoped, and all using the exact same gfx as the sniper rifle - is just stupid, and doesn't really reflect any aspect of reality in the slightest.

Having a scope on top of the weapon is probably a "animation" issues and it not really a problem. In addition IS used to also get "scoped" Enfield and they where simply better weapons.

The moving performance the weapon is actually in line with other units since the moving DPS of the sq2auds is line to the Penal squad DPS. (Accept PG and ST).

Having that said and imo, design wise things would improve if the G43 upgrade was replaced with one providing an extra entity for squads, G43 for all members and its DPS/Weapon profile curve/Cost adjusted to fit proper Semi auto profiles. It would the commander ability more interesting the squads easier to balance.

Sigh usual suspects derailing the thread.

Once more:

Cast ranges are:
- Pfussie AT grenade 18 (22,5 at vet 2);
- Volks Panzerfaust 15;
- Gren Panzerfaust 18;
- Riflemen AT grenade 15;
- Conscripts AT grenade 15;
- Sappers HEAT grenade 15.

The point of discussion is simple:

1- Is it necessary for it to have the same range as faust, which for a long time felt like an exclusive feature for Grens?

2- Does it need to get an extended range increase with vet?

well say ty to stormjager and his balance wisdom

1 yes , that's the point why u build them early game for the at nade as they are 270 cons

2 no, but if u want, reduce the base range but make the increase range at vet 1 or just remove it

well say ty to stormjager and his balance wisdom

1 yes , that's the point why u build them early game for the at nade as they are 270 cons

2 no, but if u want, reduce the base range but make the increase range at vet 1 or just remove it

For a discussion to be had, there needs more than 1 part to be involved. If that's not the case, it's just white noise.

1-I think the base range is fine, as the unit is weak early on and they are basically "snare, the unit".
IB4 why not have it as a faust and keep all AT nades at equal range? I'll agree if only faust wasn't randomly bugged.

2-I don't think the unit needs the extended range at all. If the unit wasn't weak early on, i would make it 15 range and have it extend the range to 18 as you say. But as how the unit is ATM, it just needs the vet 2 extended range removed only.

3-The only argument to keep the status quo is if the unit was purposely designed to have this feature as one key element of the unit.
IMO the min 0 snare and the option to go between 2 different routes with the upgrades on top of the flare for vision are enough identity for the unit.

...
2-I don't think the unit needs the extended range at all. If the unit wasn't weak early on, i would make it 15 range and have it extend the range to 18 as you say. But as how the unit is ATM, it just needs the vet 2 extended range removed only.

3-The only argument to keep the status quo is if the unit was purposely designed to have this feature as one key element of the unit.
...

Not really, the unit is designed to have superior performance with veterancy and even now it hardly more cost efficient than other units of its class like penals. One should not simply remove its vet bonus. If its problematic it should simply replaced by something else.

Only if the unit is considered weak across the board.

When you nerf or remove something, you don't necessarily have to give something back. Specially if it already has standard or above vet values or amount of things provided through vet.

I would simply remove it. If that is a no, then move the 15% capture rate from vet 4 to vet 2 and add a flare price discount at vet 4.

Only if the unit is considered weak across the board.

When you nerf or remove something, you don't necessarily have to give something back. Specially if it already has standard or above vet values or amount of things provided through vet.

I would simply remove it. If that is a no, then move the 15% capture rate from vet 4 to vet 2 and add a flare price discount at vet 4.

Compare the vet 0 Penal and vet 0 G43 PF ratio and do the same comparison at vet 3. Do the PF get "superior" vet bonuses as they are supposed to?

Compare the vet 0 Penal and vet 0 G43 PF ratio and do the same comparison at vet 3. Do the PF get "superior" vet bonuses as they are supposed to?

Do penals get grenades, anti tank grenades and scouting flares?

If you want weapon stats similar to raw unit with close to no utility, you have to give up all that utility you have.

Compare the vet 0 Penal and vet 0 G43 PF ratio and do the same comparison at vet 3. Do the PF get "superior" vet bonuses as they are supposed to?

They will be slightly weaker than Volksgrenadiers at the start but have access to the Anti-Tank Rifle Grenades, slightly better combat veterancy, and more powerful upgrades, giving them increased power in the late game.

Your obsession with Penals shows up. At no point they are compared to them nor should be. They are compared to Volks, balanced against them, because guess what, they are part of OKW army.
Non truck dependant snare early on, flare, nade and 2 weapon upgrade routes are their core.

If you can't discuss the main point of the thread, then you should just stick to the other thread you open up.

Your obsession with Penals shows up.

And it has been recently been justified since even MOD team members admitted that their current design that lead completely replacing other mainline should be avoided.

At no point they are compared to them nor should be.

Penal is the closest thing in role design and performance. They should be compared balanced wise.

They are compared to Volks, balanced against them, because guess what, they are part of OKW army.

Unit of the same faction should be compared with what they bring to the table not balanced wise since they do not fight each other.

Non truck dependant snare early on, flare, nade and 2 weapon upgrade routes are their core.

Non truck dependency is simply bad OKW design, (that one might argue that was necessary when OKW had a stronger start but not anymore). VG should have faust available at truck being built not set up and RW available at truck set up.

Being bullied but M3 (and WC51/WC) is cheese that should not be available. Adding a doctrinal unit fill the hole is simply a bad solution.

Flare is vet 1 ability available to also to soviet sniper and mortars.

The grenade inferior to incendiary grenade in most cases and Shreck route is hardly chosen. If I had to guess I would say more Penals get the PTRS upgrade than PF get the Shreck route.

So I am not sure what your point is but it probably not for this thread.

If you can't discuss the main point of the thread, then you should just stick to the other thread you open up.

I brought veterancy bonus which is part of this thread since the OP is asking a veterancy nerf of PF and it is actually you who started analysis better suited for the other thread...

When it comes to veterancy I would argue that Penal get better combat stats so any supposed "veterancy" PF have by design is in their utility and thus nerfing their veterancy bonuses is going against their design.

If the At rifle-grenade is OP,then their vet 2 bonus should be replaced by something else that would really make them have better veterancy than similar units as they are supposed to.

For god sake don’t fix what is not broken.

There, fixed it for you