COH2 winter balance mod - discussion

Why are howitzers having their pop reduced? I can see no scenario where that leads to less cancer as opposed to more cancer.

Because they had their CD increased in the previous patch and become less efficient probably.

Because they had their CD increased in the previous patch and become less efficient probably.

Still seem to be very efficient as far as I've observed anyway. Their cooldowns used to almost be over by the time barrages ended so it's not like it's extremely long now either.

My wishes and ideas for Ostheer, and there are many more...

- Brummbär's bunker-burst needs a cool-down buff, should be buff enough. Then the normal weapon reload can be nerfed.

- StuG E need a overwork: a. remove the CP, move it into T2 with T3 tech-requirement b. give it same weapon-stats as leIG18, projectile of Commando-Panzer4.

- Osttruppen need buff, but first price up to 220-230MP: a. smaller hit-box per member if not moving -> so they become good weapon-crews and less squishy; b. remove the LMG42 upgrade, give them 2 weapon-slots instead; c. maybe give them passive upgrades e.g. Vet3 add 2 Penal's SVT40 so you get a present by not waisting them.

- 222 needs smaller hit-box.

- 251 needs very small HP-buff, so it can survive 3 at-gun hits full-health.

- StuG G needs some range-bonus, that can be made hand-in-hand with a overwork of broken commander abilities e.g. hull-down.
a. give StuG G a stationary range-buff by ability up to 62,5 range (same as in hull-down), can only be rotated. (in hull-down no range-bonus, but maybe a reload buff)

** Commander-ability-changes:

- hull-down animation should be resetted if squad dies, so the bug will be fix... finally... for StuG G it adds no range-buff, only def.-bonus, maybe a reload buff as in good times.

- Commando-Panzer 4 is a bad unit. Buff the vehilce. a. let is spawn with Schürzen extra armor; b. change the main-weapon with sherman-high explosive but only 30 range. c. Give it a timed ability instead of aura with old 0,8 damage buff. d. gibe it StuG E's critical hit ability.

- fire-bombing-run is a usless ability... it simply needs hard buffs. Change the stats of every bomb to stats of StuKa zu Fuß's fire-bombs. That should be buff enough.

- MG-concrete-bunker, without any buff it shouldn't need pop. Think about it.

The brum and stug e seem worth to test. The ostruppen i am not sure about.

The 251 i am no fan of. It already has been buffed with things ost didnt need. The flametrack will become to good. It also benegitss from pzr tct wich helps it survive. Also why should it be tougher the other halftracks actualy?

The stug g idea is interesting. I personaly would only allow it to turn when orderd to like an at gun or mg. By making it an ability. And make it 65 range probably.

The brum and stug e seem worth to test. The ostruppen i am not sure about.

The 251 i am no fan of. It already has been buffed with things ost didnt need. The flametrack will become to good. It also benegitss from pzr tct wich helps it survive. Also why should it be tougher the other halftracks actualy?

The stug g idea is interesting. I personaly would only allow it to turn when orderd to like an at gun or mg. By making it an ability. And make it 65 range probably.

The change to 251 would be mainly because of path-finding problems, it often gets hit even when microed well. If e.g. it only gets 20hp more it would have the chance to survive some movements.

But yes, a smaller target sice would be maybe good enough.

Edit: Maybe increase the health of normal 251, but lower it for flamer-version?

Why are howitzers having their pop reduced? I can see no scenario where that leads to less cancer as opposed to more cancer.

I didn't get that either

- Brummbär's bunker-burst needs a cool-down buff, should be buff enough. Then the normal weapon reload can be nerfed.

Honestly they should just return its 40 range. The range reduction combined with the armor nerf made it too vulnerable for its cost.

- StuG E need a overwork: a. remove the CP, move it into T2 with T3 tech-requirement b. give it same weapon-stats as leIG18, projectile of Commando-Panzer4.

Don't think it needs a rework, especially because a direct fire profile lead to balance problems in the past. They should instead remove the arbitrary 5 CP requirement and give it the option to upgrade a pintle to finish off low hp models. Often after hitting a model twice it lives with a sliver of health.

- Osttruppen need buff, but first price up to 220-230MP: a. smaller hit-box per member if not moving -> so they become good weapon-crews and less squishy; b. remove the LMG42 upgrade, give them 2 weapon-slots instead; c. maybe give them passive upgrades e.g. Vet3 add 2 Penal's SVT40 so you get a present by not waisting them.

Osttruppen are fine, altough their LMG42 is very lackluster. It does half damage and comes at T4. It does nothing to stop them from being a deadweight squad in the late game. I'd change the damage modifier from 50% to 75% for just the LMG42 and increase the cost to 60 munitions.

- 222 needs smaller hit-box.

The 222 is one of Ostheer's best units, it doesn't really need a buff.

- 251 needs very small HP-buff, so it can survive 3 at-gun hits full-health.

Letting it survive 3 hits would have a huge balance impact for the FHT, have you ever tried to kill a vet 3 M15 halftrack with a single pak?

It could only work if the flame upgrade removes the extra health again or if you rework the halftrack:

200 mp + 20 fuel base cost for the 251
Mutually exclusive upgrades:
30 munitions + 10 fuel for 20 extra health + sight bonus + allow squads to heal inside
90 munitions + 10 fuel for flame projectors

- StuG G needs some range-bonus, that can be made hand-in-hand with a overwork of broken commander abilities e.g. hull-down.
a. give StuG G a stationary range-buff by ability up to 62,5 range (same as in hull-down), can only be rotated. (in hull-down no range-bonus, but maybe a reload buff)

The Stug it already excellent for its cost, but allowing turretless tanks to rotate in hulldown should absolutely be done, perhaps at the cost of toning down the damage reduction for them.

- Commando-Panzer 4 is a bad unit. Buff the vehilce. a. let is spawn with Schürzen extra armor; b. change the main-weapon with sherman-high explosive but only 30 range. c. Give it a timed ability instead of aura with old 0,8 damage buff. d. gibe it StuG E's critical hit ability.

The CP4 would be fine if they removed the CP requirement to make it an actual alternative for the Ostwind.

- fire-bombing-run is a usless ability... it simply needs hard buffs. Change the stats of every bomb to stats of StuKa zu Fuß's fire-bombs. That should be buff enough.

Agreed, afterwards they should just revamp the whole doctrine while they're at it.

- MG-concrete-bunker, without any buff it shouldn't need pop. Think about it.

Very much agreed.

Honestly they should just return its 40 range. The range reduction combined with the armor nerf made it too vulnerable for its cost.

Depending on how you want to play it. For me it would be best if the hole units gets buffed and replacing StuG E as commander-unit.

But yes...

Don't think it needs a rework, especially because a direct fire profile lead to balance problems in the past. They should instead remove the arbitrary 5 CP requirement and give it the option to upgrade a pintle to finish off low hp models. Often after hitting a model twice it lives with a sliver of health.

The current units needs micro as ****, only hits with hit-ground and can be dodged easy.

-> Makeing it a handy-caped Scott and it would be fine.

And yes, you are right, they should shoot is an angle, not direct.

Osttruppen are fine, altough their LMG42 is very lackluster. It does half damage and comes at T4. It does nothing to stop them from being a deadweight squad in the late game. I'd change the damage modifier from 50% to 75% for just the LMG42 and increase the cost to 60 munitions.

For me the unit is dead. They die like flies and are only there for Alliis to get a LMG42.

The unit got destroyed by community team, by a member never playing them.

Edit: like Osttruppen-Commandant, it was fine and got changed by wished of people never playing them because they didn't understood who they worked. Now we got a commander old fans hate and nobody wants to play.

The 222 is one of Ostheer's best units, it doesn't really need a buff.

Then tank-hunters need less acc., simply not cool seeing ligh vehicles hit by everything. That change wouldn't be a big change for PTRS.

Letting it survive 3 hits would have a huge balance impact for the FHT, have you ever tried to kill a vet 3 M15 halftrack with a single pak?

It could only work if the flame upgrade removes the extra health again or if you rework the halftrack:

200 mp + 20 fuel base cost for the 251
Mutually exclusive upgrades:
30 munitions + 10 fuel for 20 extra health + sight bonus + allow squads to heal inside
90 munitions + 10 fuel for flame projectors

I am fine with that, simply give the option for some confort when paying for it.

The Stug it already excellent for its cost, but allowing turretless tanks to rotate in hulldown should absolutely be done, perhaps at the cost of toning down the damage reduction for them.

The idea is to give StuG G the option to be used with handy-cap (stationary) versus tank-hunters, simple def. option while no ofensive benefit. In my eyes is needed for 3vs3 + to get a tool versus Jackson/Firefly. So StuG can little replace the PaK40 while having worse pen, giving Ostheer some more tools to handle artillery-games.

The CP4 would be fine if they removed the CP requirement to make it an actual alternative for the Ostwind.

Could be, but it isn't a real alternative. I would like to see a real unique unit, not a Panzer 4 without pen.

As Heavy Panzer request，how about change like this？
All 9cp to 11cp，after destory start CD，and tech request not change
IS-2 ，need T4，and not NERF armor，increase to 660+260，need T4
Tiger ，OST still need phase3 and OKW need Panzer authorization，increase Fuel to 245，TigerAce not change
Pershing，not change，still need major unlocked，cost still 600+230

Beside, please let OKW Commando-Tiger start with the Tank-Commander-upgrade. Why give the option for the HMG, never understood that?

I know it is not a thread for this, but why not give assgrens assault rifles in the late game? Instead of 6th man upgrade all 5 guys can get 5 volksgren STGs. Seems logic. Assault rifles for assault grenadiers It is quite awkward to use a cqc squad in the late-game without smoke, to be honest.

The current units needs micro as ****, only hits with hit-ground and can be dodged easy.

-> Makeing it a handy-caped Scott and it would be fine.

And yes, you are right, they should shoot is an angle, not direct.

They improved the Stug E allot with the health buff. 560 health and 140 armor basically gives you medium tank survivability for only 75 fuel. Once you have 2, they can quite easily decrew AT guns with their 50 range. All you need then is a Stug G or 2 and you can cost effectively counter just about anything while being able to absorb allot of damage.

Their damage output is indeed low, especially if you don't use attack ground, which is why I think a pintle would be a safe way to make up for this. Remember that the Stug's pintle has 50 range instead of 45, so it would be firing at long range all the time.

In short, I like the assault gun type design of the Stug E and wouldn't like it getting turned into a long range cancerspitter like the Scott.

For me the unit is dead. They die like flies and are only there for Alliis to get a LMG42.

The unit got destroyed by community team, by a member never playing them.

Edit: like Osttruppen-Commandant, it was fine and got changed by wished of people never playing them because they didn't understood who they worked. Now we got a commander old fans hate and nobody wants to play.

Well they're not bad, considering you can get a whole extra unit early on if you go Osttruppen. I typically start with 3 Osttruppen and 2 MG42's, which works out pretty well from early to midgame. Their weakness is that they can't accomplish anything on their own, which becomes a big problem in the lategame because you have to babysit them into cover and their damage output with the LMG42 is still pathetic. I don't think any squad scales as badly into the lategame as Osttruppen.

They shouldn't be equal to LMG Grenadiers, but at least make the LMG42 worth it or otherwise remove the cover penalty once they reach vet 3.

Then tank-hunters need less acc., simply not cool seeing ligh vehicles hit by everything. That change wouldn't be a big change for PTRS.

AT rifles do tend to counter light vehicles very well, but your opponent has to either sacrifice firepower and munitions (Penals) or a doctrine (Guards) to get them. You could always use Panzer Tactician if your opponent spams them.

The idea is to give StuG G the option to be used with handy-cap (stationary) versus tank-hunters, simple def. option while no ofensive benefit. In my eyes is needed for 3vs3 + to get a tool versus Jackson/Firefly. So StuG can little replace the PaK40 while having worse pen, giving Ostheer some more tools to handle artillery-games.

It's a pity Stugs aren't as good in 3v3/4v4, but I don't think you can give it long range capabilities without increasing its cost. Improving hulldown for assault guns would be a good alternative though.

Could be, but it isn't a real alternative. I would like to see a real unique unit, not a Panzer 4 without pen.

I agree it would be best if it became more command tank like, instead of just giving a boring flat damage reduction. I'd just replace Blitzkrieg with a cool new ability like allowing it to fire a barrage with Stug E shells or smoke shells to make it more unique.

I know it is not a thread for this, but why not give assgrens assault rifles in the late game? Instead of 6th man upgrade all 5 guys can get 5 volksgren STGs. Seems logic.

Yeah and replace grenade assault with 5 V2 rockets called in.

Yeah and replace grenade assault with 5 V2 rockets called in.

What's the sarcasm about? 5 volks stgs have less dps then 4 pgren stgs, maybe slightly more in the medium distance. I don't see an issue, at least on paper.

What's the sarcasm about? 5 volks stgs have less dps then 4 pgren stgs, maybe slightly more in the medium distance. I don't see an issue, at least on paper.

They also have far less balance against literally anything.

Assgrens cost like 28mp (or was it 27mp?) to reinforce and have excellent RA, you can't give them a weapon that allows them to sit back at mid range and deal out tons of damage.

That and STG's are already overrepresented in this game.

I know it is not a thread for this, but why not give assgrens assault rifles in the late game? Instead of 6th man upgrade all 5 guys can get 5 volksgren STGs. Seems logic. Assault rifles for assault grenadiers It is quite awkward to use a cqc squad in the late-game without smoke, to be honest.

Then give ass sections 5 thompsons, deal?

Well except it m8, mods want ost to suck. To everyone opinion ost pay the same for a unit and still get less. So why bother asking.

Would be cool if you could give assgrens a flamethrower instead of the extra man tbh. Two options.

I dunno if that'd be broken though.

Would be cool if you could give assgrens a flamethrower instead of the extra man tbh. Two options.

I dunno if that'd be broken though.

Sprint and flamers was tried and was broken with Penals...