COH2 winter balance mod - discussion

Do note that the search light's range was a whopping 120. The highest sight range for any other unit is 91 for a vetted 222/251 with spotting scopes, and honestly those are borderline overpowered (and they cost significantly more and require a doctrinal upgrade on top of needing to be highly vetted). Range can go up for sure, but definitely nowhere near as high as 120.

It should be a lot closer to 120 than 70 as a starting sight range. If the team does go with the vet bonus route, you could have each vet level increase the range like DoomLord suggested.

Reverting the mutual exclusiveness with the Tiger II is not unreasonable to me, I don't really agree with that either (wasn't on the team yet when that was done).

XP is already way lower than the only comparable unit, the AVRE, at 1400/2800/5600/etc vs 2020/4040/8080. Furthermore the Sturmtiger can have an easier time gathering veterancy by hitting vehicles or even scraping them, because it deals a lot more damage to vehicles than the AVRE does. Not sure why you think it should be even lower.

Its vet 1 ability was just changed to something much better.

I don't think bringing back world piercing is a good idea. The game needs less cheese, not more. It'd be a poor solution that only benefits the user, while making the experience for the receiver significantly worse.


A casemate tank firing a huge rocket is simply never going to be able to be competitively viable (without being overpowered). It's an illusion that it could ever be balanced. It can't. It will always be either overpowered or underpowered, just like similar units like the B4. Relic should have never put a unit like this in the game, but we're stuck with it now. The least we can do is making sure it's at least good enough to use for fun in (casual) automatches, which it is right now as long as the player knows a thing or two about how to aim it. And it'll get a bit better with the added utility and power of the revamped vet 1 ability.

I'd say if you can get the mutual exclusion with the KT removed along with the current revamped vet ability, the ST will see considerably higher use. I do think that the revamped vet ability is a lot stronger than the other ideas presented, and will help it vet faster anyways.

You forgot to mention Sexton and Priest getting the same nerfs while being very expensive compared to Lefh. Trying to pretend the Lefh nerf weakened only Axis is pretty stupid IMO.

Yes Ost T4 needs some buffs but it would help you a lot if you weren't so extremely one-sided in your view on balance.

Sexton just got buffed with changes to Victor barrage from valentine (This will probably turn ugly)

Having huge true sight range and 60 range TD nondoctrinally is a powerful combo. SU85 has to heavily sacrifice mobility to get a very narrow cone of vision and it's worth it 90% of the time. T70 needs to be highly vetted and on the frontline to get less vision than any other tank with spotting scopes, same applies to M20 and 222. Brits can use sniper in cover for vision or vet pyroIS in cover on the frontline. Only the OKW maphacktrack was bugged and unfair giving lots of information for low cost stock. Changes proposed to IR HT are a move in the right direction. If it is going to continue sweeping the area, the true sight range could be far, if it's going to be giving static true sight in cone in front of uhu, its range should be ~70, no more. It's stock, cheap, doesn't require vet to function and has good synergy with JP4 or Jagdtiger.

imo commando weapon teams would be decent addition to hq and normal commando glider, so it can function as other than just commando factory, you could give them some special abilities, due to their later arrival, like vickers getting camo or ap rounds, mortar getting wp or such.

First off I want to say COH2.org Discord is hosting a tourney based on winter balance prview so we can get some samples and have a bit of fun.

On to thoughts

Armor on wasp is huge for brits. Still won't be as good as a flame halftrack but god damn that's going to be fun.

Little bit about the teching for Brits thou.

One of the ways Brits is staying competitive right now adjusting to the Tommy nerfs is by rushing fast Cromwell. The good stalling power of brits and trenches allow. Giving a lot of Cqc options is pretty good but here is my concern.

It's going to be easier for top UKF players to get armor out. Meaning, we might be seeing 8-9 minute Centaurs due to how UKF teching works. It technically only takes 145 fuel in order to start unlocking mediums assuming skipping things like Bolster, AEC, etc.

Here you've given even easier ways to skip bolster with 5 man spawning squads which eliminates the 35 fuel needed for bolster. Here you've given a CQC anti infantry unit as an alternative to Sniper in the mid game.(A lot of brit players get a sniper to supplement A.I since tommy mid game has no meaninful offensive vet) Along with the lend lease doctrine, you can skip AEC tech and get AA halftrack vs ost. With a potentially much better early game, Wasp Buffs, CQC mid game unit, Brit will have a much better mid game than ever before. BUT I'd say you can get a centaur competitively with LV timing about 8-9 minutes since all of these factors lead to NEEDING LESS FUEL TO BE COMPETITIVE WHILE ALSO INCREASING MAP PRESENCE.

This is going to completely flip flop mid-low level Brit vs OST. Espically a level where people don't understand how to deal with Assault troops and a level where the moving accuracy/RA buffs will help the most.

In essense, a recipe for Cheese.

What i'm suggesting is to force the unlock of AEC or Bofors tech in order to unlock T3. This wouldn't nerf traditional doctrines but rather an anti chese measure.

I don't think bringing back world piercing is a good idea. The game needs less cheese, not more. It'd be a poor solution that only benefits the user, while making the experience for the receiver significantly worse.

Maybe not world pen, but is there anything that can be done about this?
https://imgur.com/TkoNiRF (guess you can't embed gifs?)

It seems even a bit of yellow cover can block incredible amounts of damage. A direct hit from an ST should wipe all the models, especially of a vet0 con squad.

He literally adressed this exact point in his post. And scopes are a doc upgrade for a 30 fuel unit


Pretty sure the guy working on the mod doesn't need you to point out to him that the IRHT needs to be stationary

A good idea for the ability imo would be to make the vision bypass LoS blockers for 30 seconds or something? Along with the current map detection

i crease the price if u need but right now it's useless

Maybe not world pen, but is there anything that can be done about this?
https://imgur.com/TkoNiRF (guess you can't embed gifs?)

It seems even a bit of yellow cover can block incredible amounts of damage. A direct hit from an ST should wipe all the models, especially of a vet0 con squad.

or copy paste the projectile behavior of avre ? that does not miss 100% of the time like sturm

Remember the ST planetary technology bug? Make that the actual way the shell works.

or copy paste the projectile behavior of avre ? that does not miss 100% of the time like sturm

If you're referring to the higher projectile arc of the AVRE, it's been suggested multiple times, but apparently it's impossible to implement. Same goes for changing the wind-up animation.

Remember the ST planetary technology bug? Make that the actual way the shell works.

That doesn't seem familiar to me. Is there a video?

That doesn't seem familiar to me. Is there a video?

https://youtu.be/ENUFQXGHwQk

3:44

Hans landed on the moon and nobody realized.

Maybe not world pen, but is there anything that can be done about this?
https://imgur.com/TkoNiRF (guess you can't embed gifs?)

No, we've tried, but nothing can be done (properly) to the projectile or its collision. However, it's quite easy to work around this by aiming well beyond the target:



If the missile goes short (because of collision) it will likely hit the target. If it goes long, it will collide with the target (either infantry or vehicles) halfway, trigger detonation and hit the target for full effect. The only disadvantage is having to move the vehicle closer.

Snip

Can't you make it universally pierce every object, then manually tag items on maps you don't want it to pierce?

Very long way of going about it, but can it be done?

Can't you make it universally pierce every object, then manually tag items on maps you don't want it to pierce?

Very long way of going about it, but can it be done?

No piercing, as a setting goes through any neutral object in the world, regardless of what it might be flagged as, it's the exact same tag as the Pak 43.

First off I want to say COH2.org Discord is hosting a tourney based on winter balance prview so we can get some samples and have a bit of fun.

On to thoughts

Armor on wasp is huge for brits. Still won't be as good as a flame halftrack but god damn that's going to be fun.

Little bit about the teching for Brits thou.

One of the ways Brits is staying competitive right now adjusting to the Tommy nerfs is by rushing fast Cromwell. The good stalling power of brits and trenches allow. Giving a lot of Cqc options is pretty good but here is my concern.

It's going to be easier for top UKF players to get armor out. Meaning, we might be seeing 8-9 minute Centaurs due to how UKF teching works. It technically only takes 145 fuel in order to start unlocking mediums assuming skipping things like Bolster, AEC, etc.

Here you've given even easier ways to skip bolster with 5 man spawning squads which eliminates the 35 fuel needed for bolster. Here you've given a CQC anti infantry unit as an alternative to Sniper in the mid game.(A lot of brit players get a sniper to supplement A.I since tommy mid game has no meaninful offensive vet) Along with the lend lease doctrine, you can skip AEC tech and get AA halftrack vs ost. With a potentially much better early game, Wasp Buffs, CQC mid game unit, Brit will have a much better mid game than ever before. BUT I'd say you can get a centaur competitively with LV timing about 8-9 minutes since all of these factors lead to NEEDING LESS FUEL TO BE COMPETITIVE WHILE ALSO INCREASING MAP PRESENCE.

This is going to completely flip flop mid-low level Brit vs OST. Espically a level where people don't understand how to deal with Assault troops and a level where the moving accuracy/RA buffs will help the most.

In essense, a recipe for Cheese.

What i'm suggesting is to force the unlock of AEC or Bofors tech in order to unlock T3. This wouldn't nerf traditional doctrines but rather an anti chese measure.

To rush Centaur you need 245 fuel. To rush Ostwind you need 230 fuel if you skip both buildings or 240 fuel if you skip T2 (which is totally viable vs UKF). Considering Ostwind is IMO better than Centaur now I would say this concern is a complete non-issue.

WASP Buff is IMO a token change. Even though some Axis-biased people will make you think otherwise. The range of the WASP makes using it very hard because it only takes a few meters for Grens or Füssiliers to get the faust in. With the Vickers UC you have a much bigger margin between MG range and faust range. Other than a few garrison heavy maps like for example Poltawa WASP is going to remain not viable. On top of that incendiary rounds of the MG42 vaporize the WASP with or without armour buff. The main issue of the current WASP is not getting penetrated too easily from small arms fire but getting fausted or killed by incendiary rounds from a garrisoned MG that you thought the WASP is going to get rid of for you.

Any chance USF can get some kind of countersniping? It's really tiring facing Ostheer as USF and having to deal with 1 or 2 snipers just bleeding you dry and while you can't touch them.

Can the balance team please consider the sniper suggestion from a few threads back of giving snipers a speed modifier while they're moving around normally, like 0.75 or 0.5, that's removed when they start retreating? It would tremendously help fight snipers with USF and T2 Soviets.

For the Sturmtiger, could you give it worldpiercing but require vision for the rocket? that way it improves consistency, but you can't fire it through houses as easily? IDK if this would work

First off I want to say COH2.org Discord is hosting a tourney based on winter balance prview so we can get some samples and have a bit of fun.

Is this a pro gam3r only tournament?