How I feel about paid commanders.

We know that some people don't like DLC, and sometimes that's a fair opinion to have. But what items like the Commanders allow us to do is offer a greater level of support to the base game than we'd have been able to in the past. Free content like new maps, the World Builder and features like Steam Chat lobbies are all built off of support from the DLC. The Turning Point Update is a huge free update to the game, and there's content in there that would not exist if it weren't for paid DLC.

Im sorry if I sound ungratefull, but I find some of the free content a poor justification for the DLC direction of the game.

Its great that you add new maps, a worldbuilder and a chat, but this is all features you would expect from a COH game to begin with. When you release a game stripped of some of the most basic multiplayeroptions, I really dont think reintroducing some of them justifies the DLCs.

at the very least they need to start bundling this dlc better and discounting the bundles

This and also prices for comsetics such as skins and facplates are too steep. It should be more like 3$ for a bundle with 3 skins in it.

If you order a steak in a restaurant you pay for it and this is what you get. In a CoH2 restaurant you get a steak (more or less complete game at the beginning, save for the chat and ladders which are being added for free anyways) and when you finish that, you get a free dessert. And if you're more hungry you can order potatoes and salad, which you have to pay for. And some people think they should get the potatoes and salad for free also… (A silly comparison yes I know but nevertheless…)

We (sadly) live in a capitalist world, where we usually have to pay to get new things. Let me remind you again that CoH2 already is full game and DLCs are just extras to which I believe we aren't simply entitled to for free per se. About the collector's edition I can't comment on that, since I don't know exactly what was promised and what people actually got. I preordered the game, got to keep progress from the open beta and the Fall Blau for free as promised, completely satisfied.

So far I like the concept of DLCs, because they keep the game breathing, changing, ALIVE. New content, units and stuff always bring a breath of fresh air. And getting some that content for free – great. If the income from DLCs can make even more content become available in the future, like one of the Devs said previously, that's even better!

About competitive play – yes guys, here I agree with you, that paying for Commanders that are possibly better than free ones could pose a problem. But which of the now available Commanders are OP? As far as I'm aware the Commanders were pretty much balanced out, Assault grenadiers and Osttruppen changed (fixed) in less than 2 weeks if I remember correctly. Or do you still think they're OP? And about the upcoming ones, how do you so surely know they're OP since most of us haven't even tried them out? Tiger Ace for example, I believe some people underestimate what it means to cut off all resource income and what consequences can that have. I'm not saying they are or OP or not, just that we should we first try them out and then criticize.

About the skins - they're cosmetics and eyecandy only, the least of the problems. If you like them, buy them, if you think that they're too expensive, maybe buy one (or two) per month, that's how I do it, those 2€ can always be spared in a month.

»KLAGT NICHT, KÄMPFT!«

Have fun, guys

The introduction of unbalanced units which downright breaks the game for everyone, the non-buyers too, is what truly grinds my gears.

Breaking and then unbreaking the game, again and again, is my one true fear. The AssGrens, Osttruppen and FHQ was an embarrassment and a let-down IMHO.

That's why the new commanders get beta tested this time. I think relic learned their lesson

If you order a steak in a restaurant you pay for it and this is what you get. In a CoH2 restaurant you get a steak (more or less complete game at the beginning, save for the chat and ladders which are being added for free anyways) and when you finish that, you get a free dessert. And if you're more hungry you can order potatoes and salad, which you have to pay for. And some people think they should get the potatoes and salad for free also… (A silly comparison yes I know but nevertheless…)

We (sadly) live in a capitalist world, where we usually have to pay to get new things. Let me remind you again that CoH2 already is full game and DLCs are just extras to which I believe we aren't simply entitled to for free per se. About the collector's edition I can't comment on that, since I don't know exactly what was promised and what people actually got. I preordered the game, got to keep progress from the open beta and the Fall Blau for free as promised, completely satisfied.

So far I like the concept of DLCs, because they keep the game breathing, changing, ALIVE. New content, units and stuff always bring a breath of fresh air. And getting some that content for free – great. If the income from DLCs can make even more content become available in the future, like one of the Devs said previously, that's even better!

About competitive play – yes guys, here I agree with you, that paying for Commanders that are possibly better than free ones could pose a problem. But which of the now available Commanders are OP? As far as I'm aware the Commanders were pretty much balanced out, Assault grenadiers and Osttruppen changed (fixed) in less than 2 weeks if I remember correctly. Or do you still think they're OP? And about the upcoming ones, how do you so surely know they're OP since most of us haven't even tried them out? Tiger Ace for example, I believe some people underestimate what it means to cut off all resource income and what consequences can that have. I'm not saying they are or OP or not, just that we should we first try them out and then criticize.

About the skins - they're cosmetics and eyecandy only, the least of the problems. If you like them, buy them, if you think that they're too expensive, maybe buy one (or two) per month, that's how I do it, those 2€ can always be spared in a month.

»KLAGT NICHT, KÄMPFT!«

Have fun, guys

+1

Very well said!

this thread needs a car metaphor asap

Just waiting for the Tiger Ace commander. I really fear that thing - both as a Russian and German 2vs2 player. Either getting stomped as Russian on a crucial point of a close game; but also as a German whose teammate has taken the commander. I can already see it: "Dude, help me, I have no pioneers left. Hey, dude build pios only. Why are you capping!? Noob, repair my Tiger!"

I think they should rethink their pricing. If the price for interesting and unique commanders, like many of the new ones, weren't 4€ each, people would probably complain a lot less and I'm sure they'd also sell more of the commanders.
Plus they really need to bundle them up and offer them at reduced prices. Then they could even slip in some "less interesting" commanders that wouldn't sell so well otherwise.
People would probably also complain less about P2W with a lower price and maybe even the possibility to try a certain commander for 5 matches or so before deciding whether to buy it.

This and also prices for comsetics such as skins and facplates are too steep. It should be more like 3$ for a bundle with 3 skins in it.

Somehow I would rather see the cosmetic things have a steep price while content that changes the gameplay remains cheap as today (ye cheap, wait a few weeks and they go for 2.5 euros each). This would make skins and the trinket thingys a little unique and some what exclusive to wrap your tanks in. Some speak of all the balancing and all the work it takes to get this extra content/commanders right without hurting the metagame, but no one will actually pay for the work it takes to actually get it right..

Anyhow, it can`t be easy for Relic when the same people that was crying because Osttruppen, unlike the Soviets, did not have call-ins, now critisize Osttruppen call-ins as p2w?

As long as DLC Commanders aren't OP, I could care less about prices or how many there are.

Skins are great and fine.

Tournaments can handle themselves by limiting Commanders allowed in them.

The most serious problem has been shafting CE players.
That one was really unacceptable, and will remain forever a blemish on Relic's rep.
Early purchasers shelling out that kind of moolah, should be rewarded, heavily.

Somehow I would rather see the cosmetic things have a steep price while content that changes the gameplay remains cheap as today (ye cheap, wait a few weeks and they go for 2.5 euros each).

I agree with the "pro relic" argument. Even though i can understand the frustration in the community. Its funny last night I told my wife, that i played a game 6 years for around 100 $ including the expansions and that i understand relics need to get more money out of me. But maybe it is little easier for me because im working already, as a student i would have been annoyed too. Nowadays i understand better, that producing Games is a business and they need to create revenue. Professional support takes a lot of money too.

Im not too thrilled by too many commanders too tbh, because it is too difficult to keep track and i think the game should stay like this because the meta game needs to evolve. And for players who only have time for one game a day its difficult to keep track. Part of the game is to recognise the commander and to know what is coming. This is very difficult for me atm. I know i´m a noobish player, but still.

Fazit:
Relic send us me more commanders and take my money BUT keep the commanders recognisable OR give me a ingame Button to see which commander my opponent has chosen and what to expect next.

Centerum censeo: As in my other posts I strongly suggest a commander pass, so the die hard fans dont feel too much "milked".

P2W yes a little annoying if the new commanders were way OP but they are not, hardly anyone uses them except ass grens. If you want them buy them it’s literally nothing and people tallying it all up x amount for ALL the skins, who the hell buys ALL the skins!? Personally I could care less about what the skin is on the model.

I won’t quote any more metaphors as there has been enough but seriously people do realise we live in a world where everything costs money? Would you work for free? Most people posting in these forums probably have over 200 hours in the game some much much more so it’s pretty good value for money tbh. I mean look on the D3 forums where people write posts like:

“OMG this game is such a rip off I have 1000+ hours and 8 characters and spend hours on the community forum blah blah blah it’s so crap for 50 quid and nowhere near as good as the old one”

Which I could still play if I wanted but instead choose to spend all my time on this apparently crap game……..

As a CE owner, I share Nullist's feelings - we got screwed. I've done the math and know that, in theory, we got a small discount, but the 33% sale in september and the fact preorders got equally as much content? It's a slap in the face to fans who wanted to give back to Relic.

But, I've paid £20 shy the price of BF4 + Premium and gotten a handful of commanders and skins with a single pack (most of which was given to preorder folks).

Tommy's post highlighted the case best - the current price, without collectors, is £150.

POUNDS. ENGLISH. STERLING. That is £60 more than BF4+Premium, The price of the digital collectors edition when its on sale or whatever.

Noun, are you mad claiming this isn't BF4 or COD? its far, far worse than that. What's more, we still have content yet to come - another 4 years of TOW, which is likely another 8 packs @ £7 a pop - another £56, which again is over the price of a full game.

At this rate, we're approaching the price of a games console - its stratospheric. Now I love Relic, and would happily pay the money I paid for Retribution and all its DLC, or Space Marine and all its DLC (50-100 each with collectors editions). But this is madness.

Currently, going by BF4 Premium we have 5 expansions to expect - for the price of £40. That looks considerably more attractive than COH2, and its sad when I'd rather pay DICE for that privilege rather than Relic.

EDIT:
Occurred to me people don't like long posts. TL-DR is, I don't feel Anything is worth it.

Commanders aren't worth £3 (£2 yes, but £3 no), and £1.60 for a skin that only covers one subset of tanks is a cop out (should cover all three for £2). I also feel that the price of the TOW mini-packs is also a little high, and should be closer to £5. I'd be blowing money quite quickly at these prices.

The new combo packs are about right, but £10 for so little content (when I got the XCOM expansion for £12) still stings a bit.

I appreciate Relic need to make money to keep going, but this constant deluge of content never happened for Dawn of War, and that game did absolutely fine. Can't you guys go back to a more traditional expansion model to finish off TOW?

It's simple, when playing competitive everyone has to have the same tactics and possibility's otherwise it could give some advantages to one of the players.

You need to buy the commander DLC if you want to keep up with others on the ladder.

I personally will buy it anyway but I don't like this concept. If you ask me Relic had to keep with payed DLC's only for skins and faceplates. Those items don't effect actual gameplay.

game companies need to monetize their products as much as possible to stay profitable. With that said i do think the price for commanders is steep.

I get what your saying here but usually by the next patch they have ironed out the in-balances. I mean I have no problem vs ostruppen and ass grens. I have to admit the FHQ is a pain in the ass to come up against but I usually end up choosing the mortar HT commander and blast them out of hiding

Lolwhut This post makes no sense. You say that you get my fear that they will break and unbreak the game-balance again and again...

... But after they broke it last time, they fixed it, so all's good!

- If you care what I actually mean, it is spelled out here.

That's why the new commanders get beta tested this time. I think relic learned their lesson

That is cool to hear. I really like the game, I'm not trying to jump the hate-train, I've just got this fear.

I think the idea of comparing this with Call of Duty or Battlefield is a bit off the mark. We're really looking at games as a service more than a title that gets a new full priced game every year or two. We're not going to drop a $70 CoH 3 next year. We intend to support CoH 2 for the long term, even more effectively than we did with the original.

We know that some people don't like DLC, and sometimes that's a fair opinion to have. But what items like the Commanders allow us to do is offer a greater level of support to the base game than we'd have been able to in the past. Free content like new maps, the World Builder and features like Steam Chat lobbies are all built off of support from the DLC. The Turning Point Update is a huge free update to the game, and there's content in there that would not exist if it weren't for paid DLC.

CoH2 was a full game on release, nothing was held back from it. It had as robust a single player campaign as the first, a multiplayer mode like the first and an entire new play experience with Theater of War which lets players play pre-set AI battles and co-op.

We have a long roadmap for the game, and we hope you guys will stick around. There's no need to buy all of the DLC, we don't expect everyone to. Just like we designed the original expansion packs for CoH to be useable if you didn't have the base game and for players who didn't buy the expansion packs to be able to play against those that did, we're dedicated to making sure everyone has a great experience no matter what version of the game or what additional content they may have.

We hope you like the game, we've got really great plans for it.

its the second time i ve seen this term of games a a service. where can i find information of this. so i can hate it with all my soul and knowlege. why some how this sounds like half a game and 100 dlc. is this an elegant way to say microtransactions? is this a hey take this half game. you want the other part its dlc. why does this sound like more companies making incomplete games as a way to sell dlc. why does this sound like sneak overpricing of games covered under the hide of numerous dlc. why does this sound like i have to be a fan of a game for 2 years to get it full or that i have to wait 2 years afther the game is released just to get the full experience in 1 go.

why does this sound so diferent when i see magicka. oh wait. i think its the price.

Can I sell you back my coh2 copy? Would that be ok? Because with the implentation of p2w system. The game died. Just not everyone has realized it yet.

its the second time i ve seen this term of games a a service. where can i find information of this. so i can hate it with all my soul and knowlege. why some how this sounds like half a game and 100 dlc. is this an elegant way to say microtransactions? is this a hey take this half game. you want the other part its dlc. why does this sound like more companies making incomplete games as a way to sell dlc. why does this sound like sneak overpricing of games covered under the hide of numerous dlc. why does this sound like i have to be a fan of a game for 2 years to get it full or that i have to wait 2 years afther the game is released just to get the full experience in 1 go.

why does this sound so diferent when i see magicka. oh wait. i think its the price.

why does this post make no sense?

first of all, coh2 was a complete game upon release. it may not have lived up to what people expected, but it had full campaign and multiplayer. "but it didnt have what vcoh had" and thats also not what defines a full game. this is a different game and people should accept that. besides, relic is working to add some of the features people are requesting.

secondly, none of the paid dlc is required to play or enjoy this game. if you want more singleplayer missions, you can buy ToW. if you only like multiplayer and want new options, you can buy commanders. if you dont want to, theres no reason you cant play without these.

you also compare this to magicka, which makes no sense. its a small indie title which has 20+ pieces of dlc that more than triples the cost of the game. i fail to see the relevance of that comparison. by your logic, magicka was incomplete upon release because they added dlc. magicka also released a dlc over 2 years after the game, so it made you wait over 2 years to get the full experience. just because its a cheap indie title its ok?

on a separate post because shitpost.