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UKF absent from tourney play again

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22 Nov 2019, 19:22 PM
#41
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

Brits are responsible for the most bullshit and crap experiences of this game:

comet swarms
Arty cover
unbeatable croc
emplacements with brace

they had their fair share of this game. good thing they arent as present as before


I can list 10 completely broken bullshits just off the top of my head for every single faction.

Should we never again do any tweaks to ost too for example, because of first iteration tiger ace, pre-vet rework KV-8 umm I mean flame 251, hmg42, wipe-pin planes, march deployment grens and so on?
Because that's the logic you present here.
22 Nov 2019, 19:23 PM
#42
avatar of Vermillion_Hawk

Posts: 224

Brits are responsible for the most bullshit and crap experiences of this game:

comet swarms
Arty cover
unbeatable croc
emplacements with brace

they had their fair share of this game. good thing they arent as present as before


I'm sorry, but when were "Comet swarms" EVER a thing? Ever? Like ever?
22 Nov 2019, 19:24 PM
#43
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2272 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Nov 2019, 19:22 PMKatitof


I can list 10 completely broken bullshits just off the top of my head for every single faction.

Should we never again do any tweaks to ost too for example, because of first iteration tiger ace, pre-vet rework KV-8 umm I mean flame 251, hmg42, wipe-pin planes, march deployment grens and so on?
Because that's the logic you present here.


The UKF "Features" are bs per sé, that s the difference
22 Nov 2019, 19:26 PM
#44
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



The UKF "Features" are bs per sé, that s the difference


Have you seen USF stock roster?
They had their legs broken from the start and were given all these crutches in return.

Right now, crutches are broken and they still can't stand on their own legs, as evidenced on another competitive event they made zero impact.
22 Nov 2019, 19:28 PM
#45
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2272 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Nov 2019, 19:26 PMKatitof


Have you seen USF stock roster?
They had their legs broken from the start and were given all these crutches in return.

Right now, crutches are broken and they still can't stand on their own legs, as evidenced on another competitive event they made zero impact.


And that is the better solution than other way around
22 Nov 2019, 19:30 PM
#46
avatar of Vermillion_Hawk

Posts: 224

If you're implying that the British stock roster is broken then the only things that have remotely qualified for that over the entirety of their lifetime has been Infantry Sections (nerfed successfully), maybe Anvil Engineers (also nerfed), Centaurs (broken ability rightly nerfed), and Churchills (debatable). What's currently broken about their stock roster?
22 Nov 2019, 19:33 PM
#47
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1



I'm sorry, but when were "Comet swarms" EVER a thing? Ever? Like ever?


They were very much a thing in team games before the big Comet nerfs turned the unit to crap for months (or even years idk when the big nerf happened)
22 Nov 2019, 19:36 PM
#48
avatar of Vermillion_Hawk

Posts: 224

I admit then that I know next to nothing about 2v2 and up.
22 Nov 2019, 19:42 PM
#49
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2

I admit then that I know next to nothing about 2v2 and up.

They were super meta during that time for all game sizes, actually... I would know :*(
22 Nov 2019, 20:02 PM
#50
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1484

I think the most frustrating part about the Brits is the lack of specialized infantry for medium/close range. Wher has PGrens and OKW has Sturmpios but Brits have to rely on a doctrine. I think Sapper could use a DPS buff for late game maybe at Vet 2?
22 Nov 2019, 20:06 PM
#51
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

I think the most frustrating part about the Brits is the lack of specialized infantry for medium/close range. Wher has PGrens and OKW has Sturmpios but Brits have to rely on a doctrine. I think Sapper could use a DPS buff for late game maybe at Vet 2?

Let me remind you that sappers were nerfed very hard since release specifically because they have performed that CQC role.

But that was when tommies were strong and so were brens.
22 Nov 2019, 20:36 PM
#52
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 919



And that is the better solution than other way around


Thats not even a legal argument. Every faction was somehow badly op at some point of the game. So Ostheer Uber-Panthers and Uber-Tigers right at the start of vanilla should be a reason that they should be rather up today, because it is better that way than it was in those days?

Every faction should have a right to be fun and competitive in all game modes.

As I said already: The main reason we can't balance UKF is the existence of commanders that heavily buff emplacements (Advanced Emplacements Commander) or make emplacements obsolete (if you ever used Firestorm Doctrine with the Fire Barrage for LEIG you know what I'm talking about). Those commanders shouldn't exist when we have a faction, that relies on emplacements to fill some of their important battlefield fighting spots.
22 Nov 2019, 20:36 PM
#53
avatar of Raxzero

Posts: 55

I think the most frustrating part about the Brits is the lack of specialized infantry for medium/close range. Wher has PGrens and OKW has Sturmpios but Brits have to rely on a doctrine. I think Sapper could use a DPS buff for late game maybe at Vet 2?


Exactly this. Adding a T2 assault unit would fix many problems about UKF:

-They can be offensive without relying on static play anymore.

-They can have mobile smoke if you give assault unit a smoke grenade.

-And obviously, they will have assault infantry to attack points and take them.

I think adding a "Royal Assault Engineer" upgrade (60 MUN) or directly a new unit (280MP) to T2 would be the best solution that can adress to many problems about UKF without adding a lot of units/abilities and changing a lot of things about UKF. Although they should be worse than Assault Sections at fighting since they're stock, giving them smoke grenade wouldn't overlap with Assault Section's white phosphorus grenade, which serves to other purposes.
22 Nov 2019, 21:23 PM
#54
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Problem is Tommies are not worth anywhere near thier price until they are upgraded which makes them a nightmare to support because you are already paying a premium for the Tommies. They lack volume of fire for consistent output and lack burst damage to make up for it. They can't out fight and they can't outlast but if, after paying a premium for the unit, you pay to bolster them, then unlock racks, then buy weapons they become quite strong. Too bad you have to pay so God damned much taking away from the rest of your army tho. You lose any flexibility in mp alone.
22 Nov 2019, 21:49 PM
#55
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2



my point was to show that ukf had more than 0 presence, not to contest the claim that UKF games usually ended in stomps with UKF on the receiving end


I forgot, there was also the games from Tightrope against Ashaboi (rank 1 UKF). I was asking just to see all games UKF was present.

And yeah, the claim of 0 is disingenuous as saying that OH was not present at all. Even if you account for 3 vs 2 factions.

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Nov 2019, 20:06 PMKatitof

Let me remind you that sappers were nerfed very hard since release specifically because they have performed that CQC role.

But that was when tommies were strong and so were brens.


The problem is that it was not a "strong" CQC unit but a spammable CHEAP 2x weapon carrier. It was rear echelon spam 2.0

As I said already: The main reason we can't balance UKF is the existence of commanders that heavily buff emplacements (Advanced Emplacements Commander) or make emplacements obsolete (if you ever used Firestorm Doctrine with the Fire Barrage for LEIG you know what I'm talking about). Those commanders shouldn't exist when we have a faction, that relies on emplacements to fill some of their important battlefield fighting spots.


And that's the problem. Relying on emplacement as a design philosophy. This only further limits the available number of units to be produced, specially in 1v1.



22 Nov 2019, 21:51 PM
#56
avatar of Vermillion_Hawk

Posts: 224

I'd be happy with eliminating emplacements altogether honestly. None of them are ever useful at any stage of the game in anything approaching high-level play.
22 Nov 2019, 22:53 PM
#57
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 919

I'd be happy with eliminating emplacements altogether honestly. None of them are ever useful at any stage of the game in anything approaching high-level play.


Its already the case way below high-level play. Although I would never count me to this exklusive group I definitely know to remove them very easily. And I know a lot of opponents which do the same to me when I am playing brits, so I build them very rarely in some special spots or not at all. Emplacements are dead/wasted ressources atm and they where before the latest bofors nerf which was completely unnecessary.
22 Nov 2019, 23:04 PM
#58
avatar of Siphon X.
Senior Editor Badge

Posts: 1138 | Subs: 2



I forgot, there was also the games from Tightrope against Ashaboi (rank 1 UKF). I was asking just to see all games UKF was present.



From the 107 replay files that I found on the discord, 8 have UKF: Aimstrong and Ashablois with 2 each, and then 1 game from Crab Chicken the Bidoof, Barton, prabuty and NOSMarkov.
22 Nov 2019, 23:24 PM
#59
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 888

Basically you'd have to make the Lend-Lease commander abilities and units stock to balance UKF the way it is now. But my question is this: UKF hasn't been great for a long time, they were hardly used in the previous tournament before this last one. So why the hell did they go ahead and nerf Infantry Sections and Bofors? What sense did that make? I mean if UKF was so good and unfair why weren't they used in the last couple tournaments?

The faction as it is now feels like it's designed for support of USF and Soviets in multiplayer games and not for 1v1 games since so much is missing from their roster.
22 Nov 2019, 23:44 PM
#60
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1351

My 5 cents. UKF is not selected mostly because of USF and Sov being so much better (slightly OP imo), not because of UKF being so much inferior to ost or okw. UKF seems to be as potent as ostheer with power spikes at different moments. Ostheer, on the other hand, is selected because there are only 2 axis factions with OKW being still less powerful than USF/Sov.
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