Festung Armor meta in WCS2
It could be.
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And strip OKW of their best counter to tank destroyer and medium spam? I'd rather not. The current Jagdpanzer IV has a clearly defined role, and it excels at it. The only problem is that nothing except the Tiger I has high enough DPM to fight against the IS-2, but that's no reason to change the JP4 entirely.
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Why not make the Tiger II more akin to the IS2? It's steeply expensive of course, but the issue with it is the performance, specifically the turret rotation. That way OKW has a direct counter for the IS2 that does not result in Meta offensive every game.
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And strip OKW of their best counter to tank destroyer and medium spam? I'd rather not. The current Jagdpanzer IV has a clearly defined role, and it excels at it. The only problem is that nothing except the Tiger I has high enough DPM to fight against the IS-2, but that's no reason to change the JP4 entirely. JP4s do good enough against all other heavies.
Besides that, I do consider the Allied TD profile to be a bad design (even though we're stuck with it now), that I definitely wouldn't want to spread to even more units.
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This narrative of yours that the JP4 is for countering mediums is ridiculous and no one is asking for it to be the case. The JP4 misses most of its shots at range trying to track mediums and Jacksons/Fireflies on the move, due to it having to rotate to keep up I imagine triggering the 50% moving accuracy modifier. What do you suppose happens to a turret-less tank, when turreted tanks swarm it? The P4 is a much less risky counter. I'm not sure why you think a JP4 excels at countering other TDs either, at most it's able trade damage.
And no, it doesn't just struggle with an IS2, it also fails to do much of anything to an ISU even with HEAT rounds. Meanwhile allied TDs can reliable pen Elephant/JT frontally.
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And strip OKW of their best counter to tank destroyer and medium spam? I'd rather not. The current Jagdpanzer IV has a clearly defined role, and it excels at it.
The only problem is that nothing except the Tiger I has high enough DPM to fight against the IS-2, but that's no reason to change the JP4 entirely. JP4s do good enough against all other heavies due to their excellent DPM.
(fun fact: at max range and vet 0 a JP4 actually has a lower TTK against an IS-2 than a Jackson or a Firefly has against a Tiger; only the SU-85 is slightly better)
Besides that, I do consider the Allied TD profile to be a bad design (even though we're stuck with it now), that I definitely wouldn't want to spread to even more units.
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Pershing has obvious trade-offs compared to Tiger, which you'd know if you'd take an unbiased look at the stats. I wouldn't call one clearly better than the other. IS2 is probably the best heavy - if we take its counters into account - which gets addressed below.
It sounds like a small change, but it's quite significant. The only armor that really matters in endgame situations is armor above the 180-190 mark, the far penetration value of most AT guns. Reducing the big chunk the IS2 has above this value even with just 25 will make quite a big noticeable in game.
The Tiger's fast rof makes it far too efficient against infantry. Its AoE is not far off from the Pershing, but it reloads much faster (5~ reload vs 6,5). If you added 0,5 more reload to Tiger, you could give it like 10-20 more penetration to compensate loss of AT power.
How about this:
- 18 pop to 16 pop
- 50 range to 55 range
- 185 fuel to 175 fuel
- 960 hp to 800 hp
- 260 armor to 220 armor
This would put it somewhere between the current Panther and 60 range TD's in terms of role. It would not bully mediums as hard, but be a more efficient counter to heavies. It would also allow it to more easily return fire against 60 range TD's, without overly exposing itself.
Then simply change the bad design of allied TDs. Either JP need some changes or Allied TDs. Or both.
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I honestly not know which areas Tiger is better than Pershing besides Rof.
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Problem is not heavy tank but medium tanks. They are crappy vs other tanks and building two of them which cost more than a heavy tank (except for the T34) don't bring anything vs said heavy tanks...
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They where fine until TDs where buffed thru the roof, so the problem in the TDs and not the mediums. Most of meduim have received buffs and should not be buffed further.
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This narrative of yours that the JP4 is for countering mediums is ridiculous and no one is asking for it to be the case.
The JP4 misses most of its shots at range trying to track mediums and Jacksons/Fireflies on the move, due to it having to rotate to keep up I imagine triggering the 50% moving accuracy modifier. What do you suppose happens to a turret-less tank when turreted tanks swarm it? The P4 is a much less risky counter.
I'm not sure why you think a JP4 excels at countering other TDs either, it's nowhere close to a hard counter, it can only trade damage.
And no, it doesn't just struggle with an IS2, it also fails to do much of anything to an ISU even with HEAT rounds. Meanwhile allied TDs can reliable pen Elephant/JT frontally.
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....
TLDR: the Jagdpanzer IV is a highly underrated unit, it excels at its intended roles of killing everything that isn't a heavy. Even against most heavies it's decent, as its high DPM makes up a lot for the lack of penetration. It's also an excellent unit to support a Tiger I or Tiger II and the combination is very powerful. The Panther is meant to be OKW's (Axis') heavies counter, and the Panther is good against everything that isn't an IS-2. I don't see a reason to give the Jagdpanzer IV higher penetration and slower reload, as it would strip OKW of an effective mediums/TDs counter, blur the role divide with the Panther, would unnecessarily further homogenize the game and would introduce an already unhealthy profile to yet another unit.
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Then simply reduce pop/cost and lower any stat you guys see fit. Because currently the unit is too expensive for the unit it counters.
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I'm not convinced it is, not anymore.
It competes with the Panther, and it's better AT against everything but heavies.
The issue is the IS-2 being such a werewolf unit (that is to say, it's only really countered by its silver bullet) rather than the JPIV being a bad tank. Sander39 has throughly brought me round on it.
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Accuracy at max range is fine, it has -15/15 traverse to track targets, which is the same as the SU-85. Only close to medium range it can have trouble tracking with the gun traverse alone.
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