Mortar Pit Split
12 Nov 2019, 20:15 PM
#21
Posts: 888
A better idea would be to split teching between emplacements and mobile units. So give UKF the option to go with a mobile 81mm mortar and AEC with one option or with the other the Bofors and Mortar Pit. Call the tech trees "Static Defense" and "Mobile Assault" or something like that.
12 Nov 2019, 20:34 PM
#22
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
That price is dirty cheap and building a second mortar would a far superior option than upgrading.
The price should be more like 200+150 in order to make sense.
If OP ideas was to be followed, i would agree with this.
I also think that half HP would be too low.
My concern is that the idea doesn't fix many of the intrinsicates problems with emplacements.
I'd keep it at say 280-300 and make the 2nd one fire as long as it's garrisoned. Adjust performance and popcap accordingly. Garrison bonuses are such an under rated element to balancing emplacements. Either they are trashy like now or fully autonomous and cancer like before. There has to be a middle ground and I think the extra resources of having to garrison is that middle ground.
Numbers aside, i agree. Having a unit inside, would add the man power bleed factor to a unit which is binary as vehicles.
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12 Nov 2019, 21:08 PM
#23
Posts: 5279
I actually like this one the most, but what about wasting the ManPower into units that have to be inside of it? The fact that it can be built pretty close to the frontline isn't going to change anything, as it has to be in the back like any normal artillery not to be easily destroyed. The player would still have to waste a squad to sit inside of the emplacement for it to have full firing capability, so rather than wasting 350 the player would, considering we use same Royals, for example, from 280 to 490 MP and from 300 to 510 ManPower lost, and if the player just places a squad he already had to get inside, he would lose fighting/repairing/building/etc. capabilities. So still pretty bad...
You don't have to ( and shouldn't) leave your unit within unless you feel it's worth it to do so. That's the beauty of it imo. It opens up another tactical layer. Is this sappers quad worth more as mobile infantry or super charging my emplacement? Additionally, assuming the emplacements are rebalance to account for this direction of change, thet won't be eating as much pop cap as they are now so they become a part of your army that you can fall back to and fight from but still maintain an army. They are defensive structures that would improve when manned.
Basicly a lower cost than now but most of the cost being its durability, the bolstered cost via manning would in theory be temporary and the emplacements themselves would act more as force multipliers than independent line holders on their own.
#stalinwept
12 Nov 2019, 22:21 PM
#24
Posts: 783
I'd keep it at say 280-300 and make the 2nd one fire as long as it's garrisoned. Adjust performance and popcap accordingly. Garrison bonuses are such an under rated element to balancing emplacements. Either they are trashy like now or fully autonomous and cancer like before. There has to be a middle ground and I think the extra resources of having to garrison is that middle ground.
I like this approach. I would have it be 260-280mp though to make its "base cost" be more like a slightly expensive standard mortar with longer range.
I also have to say regarding the OPs suggestion that 175mp for a single mortar is way way way too cheap for the utility it would provide if you want to go that route.
12 Nov 2019, 22:24 PM
#25
Posts: 3260
I like this approach. I would have it be 260-280mp though to make its "base cost" be more like a slightly expensive standard mortar with longer range.
I also have to say regarding the OPs suggestion that 175mp for a single mortar is way way way too cheap for the utility it would provide if you want to go that route.
It shouldn't be more expensive than a standard mortar when it's flat out worse.
12 Nov 2019, 23:47 PM
#26
Posts: 5279
It shouldn't be more expensive than a standard mortar when it's flat out worse.
But it wouldn't be. It's not mobile that much is true, but it's got a boat load of health and a longer range barrage so even at 260 it would definitely trade well with enemy mortars as it would be possible to bleed them and force them off long before its large health pool is depleted. If the enemy builds 2and you lose it you are not out nearly as much mp as now and trading 260mp to take a proper squad off the field could be a good trade on the brit. Think sort of like a fighting pit on steroids. It would do its job alone but be undeniably better garrisoned.
Something similar could be done for the bofors too. Faster rotation and reload rates when garrisoned or some thing. Same with the 17lb
Added. As I said the performance of the pit would be adjusted so that even as a single mortar it would perform well. It would be a single immobile mortar for all intents and purposes until garrisoned at which point it would become 2
#stalinwept
13 Nov 2019, 03:46 AM
#27
Posts: 479
I honestly would be fine if they tied the 81mm Mortar in Lend Lease to either Tier 2 or the AEC sidetech.
13 Nov 2019, 13:45 PM
#28
Posts: 1351
I honestly would be fine if they tied the 81mm Mortar in Lend Lease to either Tier 2 or the AEC sidetech.
Good idea although pushes UKF a bit much into being too similar to other allied armies.
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13 Nov 2019, 15:22 PM
#29
Posts: 868 | Subs: 5
Wasn't single mortar pit categorically prohibited by relic?
Yea. Miragefla and cie offered it as a tryout balance mod.
It was a 1 mortar emplacement for 200+150. Using same model as 2 mortar emp.
But only had 1 mortar in it. Paying the 150 upgraded it to 2.
I don't know what happened to it.
But I just want everyone here that the idea isn't new.
It's feasible.
It's been done.
It wasn't kept for some reason. How about finding out why?
It's been nerfed in other ways now, so perhaps it's be worth revisiting.
People complain the Soviets are useless.
Well, they are useless if you fight your units 1vs1. But they are all about Synergy.
What do I care if you have a Panther? Once you are crippled from running over a mine
I wait until you repair it with your 3x SturmPioneers and tell my 3x Mortars to fire at it.
did you know Vet 1 Mortars get FLARE?!
- 900 Manpower down the drain. - Panther still can't move worth a damn.
Well, they are useless if you fight your units 1vs1. But they are all about Synergy.
What do I care if you have a Panther? Once you are crippled from running over a mine
I wait until you repair it with your 3x SturmPioneers and tell my 3x Mortars to fire at it.
did you know Vet 1 Mortars get FLARE?!
- 900 Manpower down the drain. - Panther still can't move worth a damn.
13 Nov 2019, 15:22 PM
#30
Posts: 868 | Subs: 5
Good idea although pushes UKF a bit much into being too similar to other allied armies.
I keep saying mirror stat armies should be what's used in tournaments
No differences to exploit!
People complain the Soviets are useless.
Well, they are useless if you fight your units 1vs1. But they are all about Synergy.
What do I care if you have a Panther? Once you are crippled from running over a mine
I wait until you repair it with your 3x SturmPioneers and tell my 3x Mortars to fire at it.
did you know Vet 1 Mortars get FLARE?!
- 900 Manpower down the drain. - Panther still can't move worth a damn.
Well, they are useless if you fight your units 1vs1. But they are all about Synergy.
What do I care if you have a Panther? Once you are crippled from running over a mine
I wait until you repair it with your 3x SturmPioneers and tell my 3x Mortars to fire at it.
did you know Vet 1 Mortars get FLARE?!
- 900 Manpower down the drain. - Panther still can't move worth a damn.
13 Nov 2019, 16:44 PM
#31
Posts: 818
I keep saying mirror stat armies should be what's used in tournaments
No differences to exploit!
In best of 1 series, mirror matches are allowed
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13 Nov 2019, 16:56 PM
#32
Posts: 1351
I keep saying mirror stat armies should be what's used in tournaments
No differences to exploit!
But then You could always play two identical armies
maybe one match in the final should be like that?(09.10.2019): "You really are a jewel to this forum" - feels proud, thank You
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14 Nov 2019, 00:24 AM
#33
Posts: 5279
Anyone know why the changeable shells got removed from the beta?
#stalinwept
14 Nov 2019, 05:25 AM
#34
Posts: 66
A better idea would be to split teching between emplacements and mobile units. So give UKF the option to go with a mobile 81mm mortar and AEC with one option or with the other the Bofors and Mortar Pit. Call the tech trees "Static Defense" and "Mobile Assault" or something like that.
Im pretty sure no one would tech bofors+ motar pit and all would go 81mm motar and AEC
Give those Rear Echelon some love......
14 Nov 2019, 07:59 AM
#35
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Anyone know why the changeable shells got removed from the beta?
Something about heavy shells being OP due to AoE and light shells being OP due to range and RoF.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
14 Nov 2019, 08:43 AM
#36
Posts: 1794
I guess dislike with mortar/bofor is they are static waste.
Perhaps we have an ability called relocate on engies.
Take your engie, click relocate select your bofor/mortar. They will start teardown, once done, you can relocate the emplacement within a defined area, and they will rebuild. The total teardown and rebuild times will be same as a new build, split 50% each. And during this teardown and rebuild timing, it is twice as vulnerable to damage.
Rebuilt health will be same as when it was tear down, provided no damage taken during rebuild.
I guess this will prevent super creeping emplacement since we can define the area distance
Perhaps we have an ability called relocate on engies.
Take your engie, click relocate select your bofor/mortar. They will start teardown, once done, you can relocate the emplacement within a defined area, and they will rebuild. The total teardown and rebuild times will be same as a new build, split 50% each. And during this teardown and rebuild timing, it is twice as vulnerable to damage.
Rebuilt health will be same as when it was tear down, provided no damage taken during rebuild.
I guess this will prevent super creeping emplacement since we can define the area distance
14 Nov 2019, 08:46 AM
#37
Posts: 1351
Or just refund say 70%of resources. The ability already exists.
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14 Nov 2019, 08:55 AM
#38
Posts: 1794
Refund is too good. Should we refund bunkers too?
But if we limit rebuild within a circle and immediate need to redeploy, it seems fairer
But if we limit rebuild within a circle and immediate need to redeploy, it seems fairer
14 Nov 2019, 09:23 AM
#39
Posts: 5279
Something about heavy shells being OP due to AoE and light shells being OP due to range and RoF.
hmmm
if we keep it to tried and tested metrics i think it could work. something wide like the 120mm aoe for heavy shells and something more like the leig for the light shells. make them barrage types perhaps to make them more micro/ counterplay balanced
#stalinwept
14 Nov 2019, 19:07 PM
#40
Posts: 888
Im pretty sure no one would tech bofors+ motar pit and all would go 81mm motar and AEC
They're pretty much doing that anyways in 1v1.
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