Scout Car AT Upgrade for Soviet T1?

Everyone knows flame half tracks can pretty much destroy early T1 Soviet play in the current state. Most suggestions have centered around some form of AT option for penal troops - a couple of which I have liked.

However I haven't heard a suggestion including some form of upgrade (ammunition, mg caliber etc...) to the soviet T1 scout car. This way the soviet response to FHT could still be countered by Ostheer infantry but not the FHT. Currently T1 would have to pray for guards in time (still countered by FHT) or hoping your losses aren't too severe as you try to triple AT nade the FHT.

Hopefully such an upgrade would help the scout car make an appearance late game too. Possibly make it strong enough to hunt down MHT and the german rocket launcher too? Not asking for an insta-gib on either of those vehicles but letting the scout car plink away for 10 seconds would be deadly.

What do you think about this idea?

looks like a good idea, maybe can immoblize vehicle like PE AT halftrack? but i doubt M3 can equip any AT weapon in histroy.

It really wasn't used directly in this method. I looked it up while I was trying to think of upgrades for the M3 just like you.

However, I think a potential single AT rifle passenger upgrade might work, but only if it disabled the ability to carry other passengers, or made it so that you couldn't have 3 AT rifles firing out of the back at the same time.

An ammo upgrade is nice. But again, perhaps when you upgrade it, a red ammo crate appears in the back compartment that takes the spot of where one man would stand and shoot out back. This way, there's a small trade off.

i am not sure,just did some reasech, it looks like in histroy, M3 can equip 37Mm gun,well, well, that would be nice,


or something like this?


or like this?

If you notice, those are US helmets in the last picture.

The second picture is the M3 half-track, not the scout car.

I didn't do that much research, but it appears the Soviets really didn't use the M3 scout car much for extra duties.

Complicating things further is the M3 scout car was used a lot after the war, so you sometimes find pictures of it with wacky equipment.

A small at upgrade might not hurt, but it could be pretty minor and do the job you want it to. Even an upgrade to the mg fire-rate would do it.

An m3 will beat a flame halftrack as it is now 1 on 1(although it takes a while), so it is an effective deterrent already if the fht is aggressive and unsupported, especially if you get an at-nade on it.

How about just putting Guards into the M3 ?!

Not an option, because not all commanders have guards.

Especially so as the pool of commanders grows.

I'm trying to think of a building 1-2 unit that just doesn't scale anywhere past the very early game.

Snipers are snipers. Penal Troops are at least useful infantry.

HMGs can still always suppress infantry. AT Guns and Mortars do their thing.

I'm also trying to think of a German equivalent that doesn't scale at least into early-mid.

Meanwhile, M3s, you just never see them outside the very early game where they're used, quite effectively, to get around early MGs and bunkers.

Everything kills them, even small arms. Even for their cheap cost they're so fragile you spend so much time microing them just to keep them around.

Not an option, because not all commanders have guards.

Especially so as the pool of commanders grows.

I'm trying to think of a building 1-2 unit that just doesn't scale anywhere past the very early game.

Snipers are snipers. Penal Troops are at least useful infantry.

HMGs can still always suppress infantry. AT Guns and Mortars do their thing.

I'm also trying to think of a German equivalent that doesn't scale at least into early-mid.

Meanwhile, M3s, you just never see them outside the very early game where they're used, quite effectively, to get around early MGs and bunkers.

Everything kills them, even small arms. Even for their cheap cost they're so fragile you spend so much time microing them just to keep them around.

M3s can be a very useful unit throughout the whole game if used properly.



Every semi decent player will always have a Commander with Guards in his loadout or be able to alternatively deal with german light vehicles. So I do not see a problem here.

Every semi decent player might not always want to have to use guards. Dictating what everyone puts in their commander lineup is not an answer to a problem, it's just a crutch.

Secondly, one game where an opponent completely misplays and lets the M3 run rampant is only an indicator that the unit is useful, as I already said that it was in the very early game. But it's not an indicator of long term usefulness overall.

Compared to the countless other games where M3s barely survive the initial purchase of them to get around initial MGs and push the assault. The only time they stick around is when the German player makes a series of big mistakes. Case in point, Andy gets a flame HT instead of a scout car to hunt down the M3s causing him so much trouble.

Every semi decent player might not always want to have to use guards. Dictating what everyone puts in their commander lineup is not an answer to a problem, it's just a crutch.

Secondly, one game where an opponent completely misplays and lets the M3 run rampant is only an indicator that the unit is useful, as I already said that it was in the very early game. But it's not an indicator of long term usefulness overall.

Compared to the countless other games where M3s barely survive the initial purchase of them to get around initial MGs and push the assault. The only time they stick around is when the German player makes a series of big mistakes. Case in point, Andy gets a flame HT instead of a scout car to hunt down the M3s causing him so much trouble.

I guess you missunderstood me here. What I tried to say is, that if you'd like the M3 to be useful as light at, you already have the option there, in combining it with doctrinal guards.

I for myself prefer to use truesight+oorah+conscripts and also the mine at-gun combo to deal with german light vehicles.

With the video I just wanted to show, that M3s aren't useless at all.

As Blovski mentioned in his thread, the M3 could use a slight armor buff.

It would be better to put a new light tank in T1. Something like the t26.

The M3 should not be replaced because then there would be no infantry carrier.

Every semi decent player might not always want to have to use guards. Dictating what everyone puts in their commander lineup is not an answer to a problem, it's just a crutch.

Secondly, one game where an opponent completely misplays and lets the M3 run rampant is only an indicator that the unit is useful, as I already said that it was in the very early game. But it's not an indicator of long term usefulness overall.

Compared to the countless other games where M3s barely survive the initial purchase of them to get around initial MGs and push the assault. The only time they stick around is when the German player makes a series of big mistakes. Case in point, Andy gets a flame HT instead of a scout car to hunt down the M3s causing him so much trouble.

i think youve answered your own question. in your andy example, you say that andy shouldve adapted to his omgpop and built a counter. you have to do the same. you still have AT options even if you go t1. doctrinal options are the 45mm and guards, if you dont want those doctrines, you better have AT nades or mines. thats not dictating what everyone puts in their loadout, thats playing smart. if someone counters your strategy, you better be ready to counter them back. it seems silly to expect relic to give a counter as an upgrade to the m3 just because it would fit your build nicely.

M3 AT upgun would make 221/2 look pretty silly in comparison.

M3s already have very appreciable AI and two arcs, as well as being an open transport.

It shames the HT completely in DPS, and has two arcs which both, even independantly, are comparable to the 221s single arc. Hell it even has only slightly less survival than the 221 too, not to mwntion bwing cheaper in the first place.

Cool idea, and maybe an upgunned M3 could be an interesting Sov Commander call-in option somewhere down the line. But as the game stands, its a flat "no" imo.

Guards really aren't an adequate counter though. The FHT can come out sooner than guards can, and can beat guards too.

An upgraded scout car would help get rid of this silly FHT business where it follows units across the entire map and racks up squad kills on retreating units. The soviets would have a mobile answer to the FHT.

I would still want the Ostheer scout car (upgunned) to beat an upgraded soviet scout car - it would be absurd for it to not win that fight.

Soviets could use a non-doctrinal answer to the FHT. One that can stop it from running the map racking up squad kills, one that doesn't necessarily have to take huge losses to kill the FHT. That or make guards a 0CP doctrine unit I think.

Otherwise there is less diversity in the game because soviets doing T1 first builds will get slaughtered - no one will build T1.

Maybe with the next patch building prices/build times will come down enough that soviets can actually afford to build both buildings and this topic will be a non-issue.

Guards really aren't an adequate counter though. The FHT can come out sooner than guards can, and can beat guards too.

Soviets could use a non-doctrinal answer to the FHT. One that can stop it from running the map racking up squad kills, one that doesn't necessarily have to take huge losses to kill the FHT. That or make guards a 0CP doctrine unit I think.

Otherwise there is less diversity in the game because soviets doing T1 first builds will get slaughtered - no one will build T1.

Maybe with the next patch building prices/build times will come down enough that soviets can actually afford to build both buildings and this topic will be a non-issue.

guards already show up very close to, if not sooner than, the flame ht. guards are also more than adequate to kill a ht. 1 button or 1 nade and its dead. as for a non doctrinal answer, t2, mines, AT nades.

there will always be "less diversity" in the sense that some builds just dont work. to take an extreme example, no one will ever be able to pull off spamming only mortars. the reason is, its not a balanced army. if you build units that have an obvious weakness, you better build other units to protect that weakness. t1 is viable if you support it.

another example is assault grens. soviets counter them with m3s, so germans counter that with an upgunned 222. germans cant just spam assault grens only because they will get hard countered. if the german fails to built any AT, they lose. this is no different than building t1 and refusing to build some sort of AT. it would be nice if soviets could counter everything with t1, just like im sure germans would like a mobile counter to the m3 at t1 as well. i just dont see either of those happening, atleast not without restricting your doctrine choice.

I hope there comes a soviet doctrine that gives you m5 as a 2 cp manpower only callin.

As for what was written above me about guards being solo capable of kiling ht. Yes in 1v1 environment where the FHT is in a arena with guards that might happen.

But players are not stupid, they know that they can just back off in a semi decent normal game. What you amount the guard player to compared to the fht player in such a battle I won't say loud.

People trying to claim Guard are not a light vehicle counter?

Its a defensive counter. Part of what makes the FHT so great is that its fast, surviavable beyond being a "light vehicle" measure vs most threats past vet 2 and reinforces your supporting inf.

The phrase "every decent sov player" gets guards is telling. That's called being pigeonholed into doctrines because of 1 unit.

So is Guard a light vehicle counter in your opinion, or not?