The nerfs to indirect fire did an excellent job of stopping mortars being an all-powerful bleed and wipe tool.
However, they also weakened the mortar against the unit it's meant to counter: the HMG.
What do people think of putting an Obersoldaten-esque explosive damage malus on weapon teams (excluding the ATG because of the blast shield) so they're more vulnerable to mortar fire?
That'd help the now somewhat off-meta mortar fill its intended role without returning it to its prior undesirable state.
HMG Explosive Vulnerability
28 Oct 2019, 16:38 PM
#1
Posts: 3260
28 Oct 2019, 16:45 PM
#2
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Weakness by modifiers is a terrible idea, reminiscent of Age of Empires era RTSs where unit x countered unit y just by doing more damage to it and taking less damage from it.
Mortars should be adjusted, in a more elegant manner.
Mortars should be adjusted, in a more elegant manner.
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28 Oct 2019, 16:48 PM
#3
Posts: 785
The nerfs to indirect fire did an excellent job of stopping mortars being an all-powerful bleed and wipe tool.
However, they also weakened the mortar against the unit it's meant to counter: the HMG.
What do people think of putting an Obersoldaten-esque explosive damage malus on weapon teams (excluding the ATG because of the blast shield) so they're more vulnerable to mortar fire?
That'd help the now somewhat off-meta mortar fill its intended role without returning it to its prior undesirable state.
Yes please. Alternatively increase the AOE of most indirect weapons and lower the effective minimum damage, so that indirect weapons will nearly always be applying at least some splash damage with near misses. (Let's say 10-16 damage min. Maybe even 8. Total AOE size doubled or near-doubled.)
Just posted about mortars in another thread and was about to make a thread on the unreliability of indirect overall what with the recent 120mm thread. Thanks for making one instead.
28 Oct 2019, 16:50 PM
#4
Posts: 3260
Weakness by modifiers is a terrible idea, reminiscent of Age of Empires era RTSs where unit x countered unit y just by doing more damage to it and taking less damage from it.
Mortars should be adjusted, in a more elegant manner.
The game's already full of them. It's how they got Guards to work without their PTRSes decapitating infantry in one shot.
28 Oct 2019, 17:03 PM
#5
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
There are plenty of solution for that:
Lower the times before giving the order and delivering smoke
Lower the penalties vs cover/garrison since mortars should be a counter to static play
Improve barrage performance vs cover and garrison with lower penalties
Damage could be reduce to 60 improve the AOE profile and add extra damage vs team weapons
A similar path can be taken with the sniper with lower damage infatry and critical kills vs team weapons.
Lower the times before giving the order and delivering smoke
Lower the penalties vs cover/garrison since mortars should be a counter to static play
Improve barrage performance vs cover and garrison with lower penalties
Damage could be reduce to 60 improve the AOE profile and add extra damage vs team weapons
A similar path can be taken with the sniper with lower damage infatry and critical kills vs team weapons.
28 Oct 2019, 17:16 PM
#6
Posts: 4474
just make the mortar barrage better, it will not impact infantry unless u are a noob and camp
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
28 Oct 2019, 17:18 PM
#7
Posts: 3260
just make the mortar barrage better, it will not impact infantry unless u are a noob and camp
I disagree, cover play's something to be encouraged. Forcing infantry to be on the move all the time advantages CQC infantry even further and is counterproductive to discouraging blobbing.
28 Oct 2019, 17:23 PM
#8
Posts: 1794
Doesnt make sense? This will further nerf Wehr already weaken combine arms play. Considering Allies fast packup and 6 man survivability and even on field reinforcement.
I would love to counter allies HMG with mortar by this suggestion but no, it will affect Wehr more.
I would love to counter allies HMG with mortar by this suggestion but no, it will affect Wehr more.
28 Oct 2019, 17:27 PM
#9
Posts: 320
I disagree, cover play's something to be encouraged. Forcing infantry to be on the move all the time advantages CQC infantry even further and is counterproductive to discouraging blobbing.
Agreed with Stug Life, mortar is a tool that should be used vs static infantry or team weapons. Denying enemy cover with mortar barrage makes sense and is part of combined arms synergy.
Imho reduce the barrage scatter on the 2nd and the following shots. 1st shot can be as is now, if enemy decides not to move his HMG, he will suffer from the consequences of the following mortar barrage shots being more precise.
Players should be encouraged to use barrage over autofire, barrage cooldown reduction could help a bit too.
28 Oct 2019, 17:39 PM
#10
Posts: 785
Agreed with Stug Life, mortar is a tool that should be used vs static infantry or team weapons. Denying enemy cover with mortar barrage makes sense and is part of combined arms synergy.
Imho reduce the barrage scatter on the 2nd and the following shots. 1st shot can be as is now, if enemy decides not to move his HMG, he will suffer from the consequences of the following mortar barrage shots being more precise.
Players should be encouraged to use barrage over autofire, barrage cooldown reduction could help a bit too.
If I could, I'd have the autofire removed on everything and the barrage recharge time reduced to nearly nothing at all, certainly under 10s. Then the barrage damage, scatter, AOE or all of it could be buffed and if you don't move your units after the shells start falling then fuck you.
28 Oct 2019, 17:44 PM
#11
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Mortars are way way way way way too slow to start doing their job. You tell a mortar to barrage an area and it takes ages for the crew to finish their current task, rotate the mortar, finish their animation and then start their barrage.
If mortars were faster at starting to do their job they'd be a lot more usable.
If mortars were faster at starting to do their job they'd be a lot more usable.
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28 Oct 2019, 17:53 PM
#12
Posts: 4474
Doesnt make sense? This will further nerf Wehr already weaken combine arms play. Considering Allies fast packup and 6 man survivability and even on field reinforcement.barrage has a cd u know ?
I would love to counter allies HMG with mortar by this suggestion but no, it will affect Wehr more.
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
28 Oct 2019, 18:21 PM
#13
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
I wouldn't want to see mortars be able to oneshot team weapons again, this reintroduces the problem of the opponent not being able to react.
It would be better to shave off a few tenths of a second of setup/teardown time of mortars to make them more flexible.
It would be better to shave off a few tenths of a second of setup/teardown time of mortars to make them more flexible.
28 Oct 2019, 21:04 PM
#14
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Weakness by modifiers is a terrible idea, reminiscent of Age of Empires era RTSs where unit x countered unit y just by doing more damage to it and taking less damage from it.
Mortars should be adjusted, in a more elegant manner.
Or CoH1 era, where we had 50 armor types all with different damage tables.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
28 Oct 2019, 21:27 PM
#17
Posts: 818
Mortars are way way way way way too slow to start doing their job. You tell a mortar to barrage an area and it takes ages for the crew to finish their current task, rotate the mortar, finish their animation and then start their barrage.
If mortars were faster at starting to do their job they'd be a lot more usable.
Absolutely agree on this, Perhaps Setup time bonuses or something of the like could improve this.
I would also add that mortars are terrible in teamgames past like 15 minutes as a result of this and how easy they are to wipe with arty(slow teardown times, 2 men on the same tile with the gun). The window of opportunity for these unit can be quite small, Faster setup could help a bit in this regard, or even better responsiveness. If its not just me lagging I find mortars are terribly slow in responding to commands, much more so than other units.
Agreed with Stug Life, mortar is a tool that should be used vs static infantry or team weapons. Denying enemy cover with mortar barrage makes sense and is part of combined arms synergy.
Imho reduce the barrage scatter on the 2nd and the following shots. 1st shot can be as is now, if enemy decides not to move his HMG, he will suffer from the consequences of the following mortar barrage shots being more precise.
Players should be encouraged to use barrage over autofire, barrage cooldown reduction could help a bit too.
To be honest I've been practicing with Mortar HTs and I'm finding spamming attack ground to be more effective than barrage. Its too often i'll fire a barrage and nothing will be there a few seconds later. Easier to keep smoke off cooldown as well.
It would be nice if barrage added more than a slight ROF buff for most units, particularly the Scott as USF's primary Indirect unit for lategame.
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28 Oct 2019, 21:55 PM
#18
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
The nerfs to indirect fire did an excellent job of stopping mortars being an all-powerful bleed and wipe tool.
However, they also weakened the mortar against the unit it's meant to counter: the HMG.
That'd help the now somewhat off-meta mortar fill its intended role without returning it to its prior undesirable state.
Agreed. As others suggested improved aim-time, set-up time, tear-down time could help. Also the smoke barrage needs to be faster than it is now. I don't know why it is implemented to be such an unresponsive ability.
28 Oct 2019, 22:46 PM
#19
Posts: 1487
how they took it aside is above and beyond,. I talkd about increasing mortar damage on Machine Guns specifically many years ago. mortars need only buff vs mgs not any other.
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29 Oct 2019, 00:50 AM
#20
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Seems like a great idea actually. They already sort of did this with the buff against garrisoned units, since that was within the role of mortars. Makes sense to do it with support weapons
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