It's not ok that 240 mp 60 muni squad counters every soviet infantry unit in game.
Every unit should be able to counter every other opposing unit with better micro and battlefield awareness making up the shortfall in strength, this patch went along way to doing that.
Grens with LMG are frequently countered, I've lost games when I've went heavy on the grens, others such as Imperial Dane in his stream has beaten heavy-grens. It's not the herculean feat you make it out to be. |
On Stalingrad, you Oorah, smoke, and flank your way upto a MG42, only to run into a pioneersquad around a corner. Forcing you to retreat.
With the assault package and molotovs you should really have no problem at all, and if you are I want to see the replay.
On Stalingrad, you have at least some opportunities to do flanking maneuveurs, no doubt.
But I don't believe that imputing people whining is not really productive for the communication in our community so let's stay on an objective point for the discussion here! 
Fair enough, I apologise.
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Please explain me how I can prevent getting barraged by mortar half tracks on lets's say Crossing in the Woods using truesight? I mean, I just can't hide all day all night, you must capture important points. :/
Crossing in the woods is a German favoured map (at least in the early game), no doubt about that. But what about Stalingrad? Or are you going to find some way to whine your way out of that? |
What do you mean something extra? They already have something extra. They have much better dps, their AT nade is so much more useful than molotov (and you don't need to specifically research it). Panzerfaust also is the same, you don't need to specifically research it. It's vet 1 ability is also more useful than the conscripts. Then they also get an LMG42 upgrade that increases their dps a fair amount, especially at range. Conscripts can get PPSH via a doctrine (yours is free, built into the core game) but it ruins their dps at anything other than close range..What more do you want? The nature of conscripts and many soviet troops is that you need to be in close to have any dps advantage but you are now punished by doing that because of the patch.
Maybe if you played soviets even once instead of whoring over Germany, you might actually understand.
Read what I said again. What I said was that Grens currently, averaged over all ranges, deal slightly more dps than the conscripts - I wasn't asking for a buff I was defending the better DPS with the justification they get squad wiped more easily.
To your point I would say that the soviets have a far wider range of infantry choices than germans so it's only right their backbone infantry has more utility. |
G43 hardcounters soviet infantry and snipers. A MHT or normal mortar should also do the work.
Yeah, I was specifically looking for a non-doctrinal solution but I'm not sure there is one. MHT has always been effective but I've never liked the doctrines it comes in, I guess I'll just have to suck it up and drop one of my commanders. |
@VonMecha:
You got a point in saying that people play german more often (mostly because they played sovs in campaign all day) but I think a quote of 80% / 20 % or even higher speaks for it self!
I know prepatch running up to german infantry was usually, but tell me: I have a disadvantage at range, I have a disadvantage when I leave my cover to come close. What can I do? Waiting for mortars? Ok, works until MHT hits the field. It even counters Zis and any other support weapons. Maybe you know a good strategy that you would share with me / us?
Flanking, Ooorah, Smoke grenades, Partisan ambushes, mortars to force the grens out of cover - these all work against me. A soviet player who can close the distance effectively has no problems in this patch. |
people have always preferred germany so saying more people play germany because of this patch is ludicrous.
I have barely seen any sov players adapt to the new infantry mechanics. They are all so used to just running up to german infantry and dominating. Especially with shocks, they dont bother even thinking about using cover just a head on rush everytime. The few times I have run into people who have adapted, I found it hard just to get rid of ce's.
+1 |
Because squad wipes happen 24/7...... Russians do have squad wipe problems (mainly from mortars and brumbars) but that is beside the point.
Many people including from Relic have said you need 2 conscripts for every one gren. That in it self is fine, but then why do 2 conscripts cost 480mp vs the 240 for the grens. I (and I guess many others) are fine with conscripts being inferior to Grens but the price needs to reflect that.
No, it's not beside the point. The grens have four man squads, they get wiped significantly more than their Russian counterparts and if Peter wants to run that statement by his data analysts he'd see it was right. The manpower hit from losing a gren squad can swing games into the soviet players favour so it's perfectly right that the squad has something extra to make up for that.
Balanced? I had 3 Cons vs 3 Grens in the mid of Semois today. All within green cover. Grens didnt lose a single model.
Bullshit. Lets see that replay. |
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Cons don't need to be even with grens. Squad wipes for grens have only gotten worse since the patch, a problem soviet players don't have to deal with on nearly the same level. Cons vs Grens is balanced. |
It's funny how players like Aurgelwulf and SSHeini arguing about M3 balance and don't even know how much is the cost of it
230 mp and 5 fuel and that should give it the right to take on two pioneer squads (400mp) or more than one grenadier squad? For 230mp and 5 fuel?
It's an opening unit, it's maneuverable enough to kite units, it's cheaper than a grens squad, can transport troops and it can take on any squad from a distance. The M3 is fine. |
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