Profile of miragefla

There's nothing wrong with teching, the issue is just how calls ins such as Tigers are just always t he better option. Same for IS-2's and T-34/85's as Soviets.

I don't think that's the worst issue. If Ost can survive and reach PIVs and StuGs, they are usually in a good spot vs USF, but the early game teching is crippling as it's a necessity against USF. You need that early 222/Pak to help deal with the USF light vehicle rush, but at the same time, Ostheer tech (Soviets as well) gets you absolutely nothing compared to the WFA. Furthermore, you spend the most MP for no initial gain limiting the number of units you need to properly fight vs USF. That extra 120MP is pretty important in the early game, especially if you've been taking casualties on grenadier squads. That could be the difference between getting your Pak out half a minute earlier before the USF make their push into the cut-off.

Worse, Ostheer teching will always be later than the USF as the pioneers need to return to base and delays the necessary counters reaching the field at a point in the game where losing the cut-off can pretty much be a game ender as armour's going to hit the field before you can an appropriate mobile counter as the USF taking your fuel income away is crippling when they can be well on their way to a Sherman as they've had more map control over the course of the game.

Pushing the Tiger back isn't going to help the situation where Ostheer can't effectively hold onto the cut-off within the first 4-5 minutes of the game which is not aided by certain maps that make a proper defense difficult against the M-20/Rifle/and LT push as you can effectively spot them before they hit you due to the LOS blockers or there's 3-4 different angles they can hit from to help nullify MGs which is generally only a single one.

You can see my frustration against USF in this game as I go into a Tiger, something I rarely do, but since I fought this player before I was fed up with the vetted rifles that were hitting the field so early that could push hard.

Note the exploding fuel tanks.

The more I play against USF, the more I feel that there needs to be some changes to Ostheer's early teching system or the USF system so that Ostheer can keep up and not pray on a screw up on the opponents part or praying to the RNG gods that you get a map that favours defense. Not only is LT tech cheaper, but USF can generally expect to hold more of the map equaling higher fuel income allowing shock units like the M20 or AA HT to hit the field before the Ostheer's counter be deployed(though I find it's less gated through fuel than MP). This is worsened by the fact pioneers need to be pulled off the line to build the T2, delaying the Ostheer's T2 response further. Worse, Ostheer's paying more MP and gaining what could be considered less useful initially as the USF gets a fully armed LT with a BAR while Ostheer has rifle grenades that are useful, but generally are difficult to use in defense which is generally the position you're in for the first five to ten minutes and you generally want to hold these munitions for either fausts and the med bunker to lower the MP bleed. If Ostheer's T2 total tech didn't cost as much as your first ATG in terms of MP I think it would be easier to deal with the death push towards the cut-off, especially prone on certain maps.

Example of Manpower Differences (Grenades, BARs, etc can change this heavily however as Ostheer gets those via one-time munitions and integrated tech):

Soviet T2: 160MP (I think)
Soviet T3: 240MP

Ostheer T2 with Building: 320MP
Ostheer T3 with Building: 360MP

OKW Trucks(could be wrong): 200MP

USF LT/Cpt: 200MP
Major Tech: 240

Yes, USF needs to be aggressive, but given that certain maps have so many LOS blockers or the high fuels are positioned in a way that makes reinforcement and attacks difficult, a strong defense is difficult and that extra MP spent on the tech and building delays whatever you may need next worsened that bleeding MP as Ostheer early on really sets you back if you happen to be losing Grens in either counter-pushes or capping missions connected to the general area that Ostheer would like to set-up shop at. This does however, apply to USF rifles so you can cripple them if you get lucky/ good engagements as M20s cost most MP than a 221.

While USF rifles are more expensive that some may say would delay more units, this is compensated by the fact the first three rifles are generally equal value to what Ostheer gets because pioneers need to plop down T1 (80mp) and their starting rear echelon is 40 mp less and that's 40 mp not be subtracting from your starting total of 500 mp(I think). Less effective, but USF can immediately begin capping the map unless Ostheer players do something like Assault grens -> T2 or mass pio -> T2. Some people also go double RE simply for map control while the rifles fight it out.

The lack of needing to build exacerbates the problem of certain maps where the USF can get to either critical structures or locations before Ostheer can get its real non-doctrinal combat units into the area and generally just cap sooner and advance to that early tech sooner. So it may not actually be tech, but how the maps are which allows USF to generally take and hold off Ostheer's early attacks for vital areas(you're generally not going to get a mortar this early when you need some map control/early combat power and Snipers rely long-term effect and are best after you have solidified your territory early game).

Of course I could be delusional and everyone think it's fine, but I honestly think Ostheer tech is just way too cost inefficient at a time where you generally need more units/counters to the common USF LT play which can break Ostheer on quite a few maps at the right moment if you make a single mistake, be it moving the MG at the wrong time or your units not being together at the right moment that leads into Ost being push off the map and the USF being in a position where it's forcing Ostheer to do something they are not particularly good at doing early game, attacking defended positions. LOS blockers also don't help since they can block firing(and you generally want to start off at max range) and detecting possible pushes before they can strike.

USF could be compensated by reduction in Captain and possibly Major tech if LT tech was semi-delayed or remain the same if USF general map control is taken into account.

Also I wouldn't mind if the other factions got benefit for their tech. USF gets units, OKW gets healing, repair, super flak gun. Soviets get nothing and Ostheer only gets rifle grenades and I guess faust if you didn't bother with the T1 (go Ostruppen!).


TLDR: Ostheer Teching too inefficient versus USF LT tech at a time when you need to either hold off the push or be pushed back a considerable amount and possibly be a game deciding moment. Changes needed?

<rolling my eyes> ugh. fine. I guess it's ok that only Axis gets a million types of elite troops.

Ostheer only has Stormtroopers as some sort of elite call-in and they're just cloaking grenadiers until upgraded making them cloaking PGs. All the other call-in are support(Assault grens because they scale poorly later, Arty officer because arty officer) or horde units(Ostruppen).

Main issue in the smaller games I find with the 42 are the maps. Either there is too much green cover preventing its job, or the map is too narrow/crowded to make use of its range/ effectively spot flanks before they can hit. Semoisky, the 42 can't be effectively used in the center of the map until most of the green cover gets bowled down, yet that is also a vital area since it allows you to reach the cut-off of munitions on both sides. La Glaieze(sp), way too cramp/narrow streets to make use of range/arc, and they can catch the Mg out of position. Northern Part of the map on Road to Kharkov, green cover at your cut-off, buildings further south makes it role at suppressing diminshed. Stalingrad, why does this exist in automatch?

Khlodeny, while a bit more cramped, does have considerable amount of areas where an MG can lock down 1-2 points. Langreskya, 42 generally perform well since the only the hedges in the middle can bring unexpected surprises and even then they can generally be spotted before the enemy reaches the Mg or the point you are defending.

Only thing it really needs fixed is reloading during combat, and the thing firing the tiniest burst at the start when it decides to fire and occasionally not suppressing for some strange reason.

TLDR: Most maps bad/too narrow for Ostheer that relies on weapon teams.