Basically, VonIvan went with Ostruppen spam, Sib with Assault Grens and sometimes just Grens. They absolutely kerbstomped AndyIsRipping and IronRoman three times in a row with it - not even a competition. Think they did the same to Hans and Luckystrike. I think we'll see with Ostruppen - personally I don't see how a lot of the strats that were ridiculous with them after the damage hotfix are more balanced now, whether that's the Ginnungagap/Hans spam, FHT and trenchspam, the Semois/Kharkov building rush. At high level play I think there are still a lot of reservations about how balanced Assault Grens are, though I think they just need a bigger call-in cooldown and they'll be fine. The balance considerations for those are only half the story - they also kind of mess up a lot of the core principles of the (early) game in a manner which is basically un-fixable and which affects every player who has to play against them.
I think the issue is the speed/timing of release for all these new commanders and the state in which most of the paid commanders so far have been released. If the same release schedule and standards are kept up, the game is just going to drift from one imbalanced new commander to the next.
Even if they were released in a basically sane and tested state (as Soviet Industry, the FHQ doctrine, Ostruppen and Assault Grens all weren't), they would probably require a month or two in the game before they could be effectively balanced. The poor state of release has further problems in that, when people are paying for them, you can't later remove an ability from a commander to balance it, and a lot of the new commanders seem to have a combination of several useful new abilities plus two of the best of the old ones, whereas the earlier commanders had more of a mixed bag.
The fact that Relic are sugarcoating them by releasing Tales of War commanders for free at the same time only exacerbates the problem of not having any time to balance new commanders properly against the existing game.
All of the balance adjustments you mention I wholeheartedly support (though I think the 120mm didn't need to be pricier - and did they actually remove the blitz with a damaged engine yet?) but none of those were imbalances that made me not want to play. The presence of Soviet Industry, or the Dushka + Mine doctrine or the cheapish insta-vet 3 grens have more or less put me off trying the new patch until I see a fix for them. The topics of pure rant are pretty understandable. I don't think the game is doomed but I do think Relic need to seriously reassess their release schedule and balancing process for new multiplayer content so they can actually reap the benefits of the other balancing work and game improvements they do.
Yeah, I see.
As I've written before, I agree that we can come to a conclusion that the new comms were rushed a bit and next time should be properly tested prior release. I don't mind if they're released in a period of the next month, just that they're thoroughly evened.
Yesterday when I finally manage to play a couple of matches since a week I noticed a couple of things:
the game was smoother, about the 120mm mortars it was actually their range that was bothering me, not the spam, PaK received camouflage as standard (same principle as in vCoH)-when was that added?, no more Blitz for the damaged engines, flame halftrack armor considerably nerfed, AI got buffed acting better (no spam of certain units...)...
The one game I played with Elite troops I haven't got the feeling of major OPness, I managed to vet a Gren squad and a Pz IV (to 1 star only) nothing more, because the fuel costs. And spending 40fuel on 2 vets also caused my armor to come out later which posed a problem, since Soviets were fielding quite a lot of it.
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No more Blitz for damaged engines |
Yup. Not as much as they used to be, and the effect is more pronounced in 2v2 than 1v1. Did you catch any of the Sib/Von 2v2 with assgrens and Ostruppen last patch (since which they've not really been changed much) - I think everyone involved agreed it was a bullshit strat. Personally I think Ostruppen need to be more expensive (like, 180mp) or lose bunker building and fausts, both Ostruppen and Assault Grens need a longer cooldown after being called in, units should take longer to exit trenches, should have a higher chance of dying in a trench collapse and units in trenches should not be able to prevent a cap. Just statistically compare 240mp of Ostruppen to 240mp of Grenadier and they're substantially better.
Your analogy is kind of flawed. It's more like you've bought a bottle of wine and then the restaurant owner later informs you that when you pour a glass a higher-paying customer can walk over and have a wee in it.
Surely you get the premise that my fun/enjoyment of the game as a not hugely competitive player depends on it being a reasonably well balanced competitive game, so when I lose I can say I made x mistakes or I just got outplayed, and when I win I can feel like I deserved it. The continual introduction of new commanders is obviously not something Relic has managed to *aheh* balance with maintaining a reasonably well-balanced multiplayer, and the probable arrival in a couple of months of yet more commanders doesn't give me hope that the game is going to reach a balanced state unless Relic learn to feed in content and major changes slowly enough that their patching process and the meta can handle it.
No sorry, haven't watch it, if I understand you correctly one of them used Osttruppen Commander and the other Mechanized assault? Well okay a combination of both might be problematic, although what I've read people have found ways to counter them and no longer think they're OP.
I haven't included every aspect of the game in the analogy (which we can drop now, even I think it went a bit too far  ), only the system of free and paid DLCs. Nevertheless I disagree with your statement, I don't think we're this far.
Yes I've acknowledged they're possibly unbalanced when released, but things always get fixed, as you've noticed with this patch like flame halftrack's gotten nerfed, Blitz is now disabled with a damaged engine, 120mm was nerfed a bit, which I all think are nice. And YES some of the changes could have come earlier... As I see things now, Devs are trying to fix stuff as soon as possible and the new commanders were tested in the beta, perhaps they should be tested for a bit longer next time, so we can avoid situations such as these.. All in all I think things are going in the right direction, just a bit more testing before the new releasing. I don't think that situation is so bad that we need tens of topics of pure rant, thank you  |
Ok, here is the thing. What if in this restaurant are held eating competitions and man who will finish eating first win the price. Now, what if people get regular spoons to eat the soup and this one guy bought a spoon that is twice the size of regular one. Add to this that promised desert got delayed and instead you can buy drinks you don't want, but this will support company to deliver desert (that should be there already when you bought the game).
Have in mind that the post was written before the new commanders, so they weren't included in this analogy and besides as far as I see it the most problematic one is the Soviet industry which I strongly believe will get fixed, the experience people have had with Tiger Ace are that's a quite risky tactic. If we focus on old commanders only: do you really think he bought a spoon twice the size? Really? You still think that Osttruppen and Assault Grenadiers are OP? As I see it this situation is more comparable to saying that this guy's got a silver spoon while others have steel ones, not larger just different. And restaurants are usually not for competitions, but for personal enjoyment (here I mean that I believe, as I've written somewhere else, computer games are meant for fun, not primarily for competitions and winning things..). But if you want to compete and get prizes, having all the right to do so, you can set the rules, which such competitions usually do. If you believe the problem persists, you can say that everyone has to use the same type of cutlery and it solves your problem.
You don't have to buy the drinks, they're just offered, some will some won't. I am sure that the system is set that it still works even if only some people buy the stuff, not everyone. |
I thought the idea of the Tiger Ace and the loss of all income was kinda... weird.
But I guess it would fit stuff like the Battle of the Bulge, where the Germans gathered all their Elite Tank Divisions, or what was left of them, but when the breakthrough failed the entire german army had to retreat on foot, as there wasnt even enough fuel left to retreat their vehicles.
Yes exactly like that. There were such operations on the Eastern front as well, in Hungary for example. When you're on zero resources a unit lost is a unit lost forever - just like for latewar Germany. |
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Isn't it 19 per side? |
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Bit offtopic, does anyone know what this means? Regarding the AI:
"Removed the AI class for medium vehicles and added the AI class for stationary infantry to better represent actual gameplay roles of different units." |
An PanzerIII fighting against an IS2, that would be historically accurate 
Well actually it wasn't impossible although I think such situations were rare indeed
Panzer III was at the beginning of Operation Barbarossa the most common German tank. In 1942 it was upgunned to be able to counter the T34, although being gradually replaced by PzIV. It still saw action during the battle of Kursk, after that it was pulled out of the frontline service. It was however in use until the end of the war.
One of the possibilities of using older vehicles and units could be in in anti-partisan operations, like an Anti-partisan Commander or something. Although for such role a PzII or Pz38(t) would be more appropriate than a PzIII. Just an idea... |
it does seem like that but if relic is doing that they are a bit behind on the time zone. there were already massive luftwaffe supply drops on encircled german armies way before stalingrad. look up battle of demyansk pocket, in this battle the germans were surrounded and cut off by a numerically superior army. the luftwaffe were dropping off in loads of supply into the german pocket, and the army was able to survive and breakout while inflicting heavy casualties on the soviets. this operation was the reason why hitler was so confident on the luftwaffe to relieve stalingrad.
also the doctrines that came out with the 1942 ToW came with units that are from the 1941 era. relic is out of sync with the timezone with their doctrines.
Yes you are right, the similar situation happened before as you've mentioned it at Demyansk pocket. Although the important difference is that at Demyansk the number of trapped troops were the size of a corps, while at Stalingrad the whole 6th Army, numbering around 200 000 soldiers, that's also why the Stalingrad airbridge wasn't as succesful. And the second thing, Stalingrad is a very well known and popular dare I say it, battle and that's why probably this commander was added at this moment.
Otherwise yeah, some of them could be released a bit earlier according to ToW progress. But as long as new units are being added, it isn't a major catastrophe if they're added somewhat too late/early
Also on yesterday's stream it was implied that we may see a Panzer III |
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