Commanders and history

I've noticed with the announcement of the new commanders, that Devs (successfully) tried to represent some of the German and Soviet tactics implemented during the course of Eastern front, like Luftwaffe support – simulating the airbridge between Tatsinskaya and Pitomnik during the Stalingrad pocket, Elite troops as the elite divisions (like Grossdeutschland and Das Reich), the Tiger Ace cutting off resource income in exchange for a powerful unit – a German all-in gamble, a characteristic of some of the German decisions in a latter half of the war. Also the unannounced yet Breakthrough commander (Stormtroops, quick decap, artillery strikes on unconnected points…) is exactly how Operation Barbarossa in 1941 was conducted, with outmaneuvering, encircling and annihilating the pockets, thus destroying large armies.
Also on the Soviet side, the Partisan commander, partisan warfare played a big part in Eastern front, with numbers of irregulars amounted over 500 000 in 1943. The industry tactics – with the moving of the vast Soviet industry to the Ural mountains complete in 1942, they could finally start with enormous production of war equipment and materiel.

I really appreciate that Relic incorporated these features in the game and would like to see more such content of this kind in the future. What is your opinion on the topic?


(Please don’t use this topic for complaining or ranting about how this or that Commander is OP and that the system sucks. Refer only to historic stuff in connection with the game, much obliged )

its a great idea, i love the way this is going , cant wait for the largest tank battle in history to start and also the battle for berlin

it does seem like that but if relic is doing that they are a bit behind on the time zone. there were already massive luftwaffe supply drops on encircled german armies way before stalingrad. look up battle of demyansk pocket, in this battle the germans were surrounded and cut off by a numerically superior army. the luftwaffe were dropping off in loads of supply into the german pocket, and the army was able to survive and breakout while inflicting heavy casualties on the soviets. this operation was the reason why hitler was so confident on the luftwaffe to relieve stalingrad.

also the doctrines that came out with the 1942 ToW came with units that are from the 1941 era. relic is out of sync with the timezone with their doctrines.

Well, you can't include everything I suppose.

it does seem like that but if relic is doing that they are a bit behind on the time zone. there were already massive luftwaffe supply drops on encircled german armies way before stalingrad. look up battle of demyansk pocket, in this battle the germans were surrounded and cut off by a numerically superior army. the luftwaffe were dropping off in loads of supply into the german pocket, and the army was able to survive and breakout while inflicting heavy casualties on the soviets. this operation was the reason why hitler was so confident on the luftwaffe to relieve stalingrad.

also the doctrines that came out with the 1942 ToW came with units that are from the 1941 era. relic is out of sync with the timezone with their doctrines.

Yes you are right, the similar situation happened before as you've mentioned it at Demyansk pocket. Although the important difference is that at Demyansk the number of trapped troops were the size of a corps, while at Stalingrad the whole 6th Army, numbering around 200 000 soldiers, that's also why the Stalingrad airbridge wasn't as succesful. And the second thing, Stalingrad is a very well known and popular dare I say it, battle and that's why probably this commander was added at this moment.

Otherwise yeah, some of them could be released a bit earlier according to ToW progress. But as long as new units are being added, it isn't a major catastrophe if they're added somewhat too late/early

Also on yesterday's stream it was implied that we may see a Panzer III

An PanzerIII fighting against an IS2, that would be historically accurate

An PanzerIII fighting against an IS2, that would be historically accurate

Well actually it wasn't impossible although I think such situations were rare indeed

Panzer III was at the beginning of Operation Barbarossa the most common German tank. In 1942 it was upgunned to be able to counter the T34, although being gradually replaced by PzIV. It still saw action during the battle of Kursk, after that it was pulled out of the frontline service. It was however in use until the end of the war.

One of the possibilities of using older vehicles and units could be in in anti-partisan operations, like an Anti-partisan Commander or something. Although for such role a PzII or Pz38(t) would be more appropriate than a PzIII. Just an idea...

I really think, if there were any PzIII left at the time of Kursk, it mostly like were Artillery Spotters and Command Tanks. Not battle tanks.

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I thought the idea of the Tiger Ace and the loss of all income was kinda... weird.
But I guess it would fit stuff like the Battle of the Bulge, where the Germans gathered all their Elite Tank Divisions, or what was left of them, but when the breakthrough failed the entire german army had to retreat on foot, as there wasnt even enough fuel left to retreat their vehicles.

I really think, if there were any PzIII left at the time of Kursk, it mostly like were Artillery Spotters and Command Tanks. Not battle tanks.

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I thought the idea of the Tiger Ace and the loss of all income was kinda... weird.
But I guess it would fit stuff like the Battle of the Bulge, where the Germans gathered all their Elite Tank Divisions, or what was left of them, but when the breakthrough failed the entire german army had to retreat on foot, as there wasnt even enough fuel left to retreat their vehicles.

They were actually used as frontline battle tanks. Here are some pictures from the battle of Kursk (from Wikipedia)







By October 1943 they were almost fully replaced with PzIVs although 79 PzIII left were still in frontline service on Eastern front in late 1944, according to achtungpanzer.com

I thought the idea of the Tiger Ace and the loss of all income was kinda... weird.
But I guess it would fit stuff like the Battle of the Bulge, where the Germans gathered all their Elite Tank Divisions, or what was left of them, but when the breakthrough failed the entire german army had to retreat on foot, as there wasnt even enough fuel left to retreat their vehicles.

Yes exactly like that. There were such operations on the Eastern front as well, in Hungary for example. When you're on zero resources a unit lost is a unit lost forever - just like for latewar Germany.

Panzer III and Panzer IV were the core German battle tanks at Kursk. P3 was phased out by 1944 and eventually replaced by the Panzer V afterwards.

The P3s in Kursk were the long barreled high velocity 50mm ones, which could knock out a T-34's frontal if it closed within 500 meters.

I'm all for historical accuracy, but on what scale is history trying to be represented in? The course of every skirmish and battle in the war on the Eastern Front wasn't a fractal sequence of superior German forces overextending in the face of sheer overwhelming manpower.

I'm not sure every battle should be a highlight of Nazi failure to invade oil reserves in the Caucasus mountains centered at Baku, nor should every Soviet battle be as desperate an ordeal as were the circumstances for the garrison of Pavlov's house.

Historical accuracy is better suited being represented with the types, roles, and functions of units in the game, rather than trying to capture an overarching summary of singular aspects of probably the most complexly brutal period of human warfare in history.