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So SNF finished up, but there was an interview the Relic's CoH2 producer.
I don't remember everything they talked about, but they did address a few things.
First, they are away of the input and various other lag issues. They are working on a solution, but it's a lot more complex, difficult, and time consuming to fix than people expect. They are narrowed in on a solution though, and are working on it.
There are larger plans in the works for CoH2 beyond these DLC packs, no word on what those are.
Anyone else catch noteworthy info? I was dead tired working on a project when I listened to it and only caught those bits. |
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Yep, that's pretty much why I'm mostly okay with DLC commanders. However, Relic really has to stay vigilant with balance patches for these if they're to keep the trust.
And any future commanders have to be better tested and balanced than the first bunch they released, because then they'll be blowing any trust built with the positive balance patches prior.
I also think that they need to help acclimatize people to these new abilities by distributing them to new free commanders that largely have reused abilities except one. Which is why I was happy to see the 45mm AT Gun put into another free commander.
Then, perhaps the paid DLC commanders get special visuals on their version of the abilities, along with their special configuration of commander abilities. |
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In CoH, it's a bad idea to have anything be only for one purpose and not be any threat to anything else, unless in very specific circumstances or intentional type match ups. They realized this from CoH1, which is why a bunch of good changes were made for CoH2, sadly those changes get overshadowed by the plethora of other issues.
AT Guns, are for the most part, unable to deal with infantry. However, I think it's a very positive thing that AT assets do hit infantry. The thing is, if you want to avoid getting hit by that rare stray infantry shot, you need to be smarter about how you attack with infantry.
Again, the SU-85 rarely hits infantry. They will snipe 1 man, or multiple very clustered men, only once per 2 small engagements. Or twice per single extended engagement. One volley of 2 shreks that hit (and they usually do) will drop 1/3 of a SU-85's health. They can run at it from the front and reaonably expect 2-3 men to get away with low health with having accomplished either driven back the SU-85 with high damage, or have destroyed it some some support.
You describe the ridiculous situation of blobbed infantry and an entire front of enemy units firing on your PGrens alone. And you know what? You want that to happen because those PGrens should be backed up by an equal amount of units for you. Anything firing at your PGrens will not be firing at the rest of your army which you will be microing to hit those distracted units. If you're sending your PGrens in alone against a blob or an entire front line with no support, then you are doing things wrong.
In a normal encounter with Conscripts you charge in and kill the entire squad and only have the potential to lose 1 man. Want them to survive more? Put them in cover instead of charging in and you'll still win that fight, but this time without risking any losses.
And why are you expecting to decrew every weapon you come across. As above, just accomplishing a retreat or forced back off is enough on top of the manpower damage.
What you are asking for are basically KCH, and that unit was ridiculous in every aspect. KCH are a choice in your build, you risk some survivability for a great deal more killing power. If you don't like it, then there's other builds to use. |
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Tiger Ace will probably have its own special abilities and stats. It probably won't be able to vet up at all, and just have stats similar to that of a vet 3 tiger of now, before they do the nerf to vet 2.
Very much like a King Tiger, including how the KT used to drop manpower income to nothing for a while after you call it in. |
I dont think M42 needs to trade effectiveness.
It just need to be more effective in its primary role as a defensive unit that requires premptive setup, and which is punished hard for failing that.
I meant it needs to trade effectiveness in the entire faction balance scheme.
You can't have things like the LMG or PGrens staying as they are and also have the MG42 still able suppress and pin as it used to.
All those things combined lead to a very narrow breakthrough window before tanks also show up. |
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I suspect the MG42's current state is due to the devs waiting on larger overall fixes and code changes. It's a stopgap change meant to halt the progression of the largely stale and not fun MG42 dominating gameplay.
Any simple change made to boost an MG42's effectiveness at stopping a frontal charge would still always make it more effective at pinning anything else in its arc. They'd have to test out other more complex and situational changes
After such a buff Gren/LMG spam would actually be more of a problem since the MG42 would be even better at holding back troops.
It's a situation where you're going to have to trade effectiveness in one area for another.
Guess we'll need to wait for 2 more days to see what Relic decides to do. |
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The expense of PGrens is intentional because they are one of the most powerful and versatile infantry in the game. A single squad, used well to flank, or sometimes right down the center can cause multiple squad wipes and route an entire infantry force, all at vet 0. No other infantry can do that in the game. They also hard counter SU-85s.
They have to have some weakness, and thus their bane is HE weapons and other things that blow up the squad or pick off members by ignoring their armor and speed. Even if you lose 1 man, they are still quite potent at their roles.
As for damage for cost and risk, unless I'm mistaken or it has changed, the stats on PGrens weapons are such that their assault rifles should work at medium range. People only close in for short range fights because, again, PGrens are just so deadly when they get in close. They evaporate squads if they get in close, so in comparison it may seem like their guns are weak at medium range, where instead you're just doing normal damage. If their stats are giving them only SMG style range, then I think that's actually something that should be changed.
Then there's that amazing grenade.
Here's where I really disagree with the whole premise. AT guns, tank cannons, etc are all still CANNONS. For all of warfare where we've had cannons, those cannons have been used to good effect for killing infantry. You know those tank destroyers and tank hunters? They were used throughout the war more for firing on infantry positions. All infantry should be affected by cannons of all types, 1 regular kill is fine in a short engagement and doesn't happen that often. You only think it happens all the time due to confirmation bias. It's actually an intentional design decision as well since a problem in CoH2 was super infantry running around ignoring tanks.
And you know what, the same thing happens to shock troops and guards. The P4's scatter was changed so they're a little worse at it, but that was due to P4 spam becoming a problem since it could kill both tanks and infantry with equal speed. Even now, it has 3 MGs on it, turn that P4 to face all its cannon and all MGs on any target and they will have to retreat.
However, what you need to realize, and what most dedicated German players don't realize is that for all your problems with HE shots killing your guys, almost everything Soviets have die much more quickly to direct fire.
Which brings me back to the PGrens. Your PGrens are one of the direct fire things that quickly wipes out things like conscripts.
Play as Soviets for a while and you'll see this. And it's why people think you are trolling and are not receptive. You are demonstrating a very limited view of the game, a tunnel vision in regards to PGrens alone.
It's also a topic that has been discussed already.
If you want PGrens to be more durable, you will have to lose a large chunk of that squad wiping ability. Are you willing to do that? |
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I think you drastically overestimate how many active players there were for CoH1 7 months after release. It's a rose tinted glasses thing again where you remember an old game you love a bit too good.
The reality is CoH1 never sold that well in the short term. Anyone still playing are the die hards or people who got in one one of the many sales and stayed. But CoH1's sales numbers in any monthly or 6 month basis while decent, were never great, and neither were the active player numbers. The only reason why we got this sequel is because CoH1 kept selling for a long, long time and maintenance of its gamespy powered online play cost next to nothing. Then there's the expansions which added more casual modes of play.
I also think that, overall, the market for old style 1v1 RTS games, even CoH's signature take on it, has been long in decline. Look around the market and try to think of any RTS series that has survived. It's really only Starcraft 2, which survives based solely on Blizzard's rep and nostalgia, and in a distant second is CoH2. Command and Conquer is pretty much dead, with even the free to play version being canceled and some nebulous talk of it being revived later.
I've posted elsewhere on my thoughts for reviving the player base by adding good distinct and concise team oriented play, which always helps bring in people since people love team games, as evidenced by the explosion of team based semi-RTS games.
But, I digress.
All this DLC that people see was probably part of Relic's original CoH2 plan even if THQ and Sega didn't get involved. Why? Because it would monetize those long term dedicated players and provide new gameplay that could be balanced by limiting the unit combinations, that applies to both paid and free commanders.
Someone mentioned the CoH1 Kangaroo. I left the CoH1 community before it was released, or before that unit took off. All I heard was it was one of those broken units everyone complained about. But, I suspect the reason why it stuck in people's mind so much was that CoH1's patching process was at a near dead standstill by the time it came out. As such, the unit that would have been just a blip on the balance meter, became a long term stain on the community.
The reason for this is that they had no way to monetize the further development and maintenance of the game. Patching slowed down as manpower and resources were devoted to future games like DoW2, CoH2, and some other projects that THQ sent to Relic, like Space Marine.
The only reason why CoH1 got its final balance patch was that the CoH Online free to play game failed, which allowed them to take all the code and engine changes from that and fold it into CoH1. You know a game is dead when the only reason it's updated is that there's leftover chunks of another failed game to combine with it.
However, on the positive side, it's been a little over 4 months since release of CoH2 and not counting minor updates, we've gotten 14 major updates, including new maps, new free commanders, and yes, the paid commanders. That's over 3 patches a month.
That's why I think that these DLC commanders are only skirting the line between pay to win and fun new gameplay, and that's because the patching process on these has been quick, and have always addressed many issues brought up by the community. We've only had to wait about 2 weeks between updates, or announcements of updates.
Which is not to say that it couldn't turn to the dark side in an instant. If they hadn't have released the patch to address AGrens meta power and FHQ bugs as quickly as they did, or if they don't continue to address them as players use them more. Heck, if they release those 2 new paid commanders on the 12th as broken as the first paid commanders were, it's a really bad sign. |
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I don't think, 100% hit and kill rate is the answer.
But perhaps snipers could hit and do normal high damage instead of outright kills against units in buildings? |
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In some ways, yes. That's why I was saying that you're asking for more of the same on an extreme level.
I'm ready to be just as upset at Relic and Sega as you guys are, but every patch has made progress. If they ever took another step across that line, I'm ready to leave the community. I've actually warned others to stay away until they balance more overall. And I'm being pretty cautious about the two new paid commanders.
But I also note that we're getting an ability from a paid commander, the Soviet 45mm AT gun for free with the defensive commander.
The funny thing is, people complain about skins when skins are the things you should be clamoring for as paid DLC instead commanders. Heck, as silly as faceplates are, it's still better than paid commanders.
And I was there from CoH1's launch and well into its old age. It took a long time to balance that game. I see it as it really was, not with the rose tinted glasses others have. I know how long it will take to get CoH2 to the same level. |
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