Profile of elchino7

Thanks for the info, now pls test the ability and provide feedback in any thread you like.

Avoid creating new threads unless it's to discuss something outside of the scope of the new patch. Specially if the opening post is just "guys pls test this".

This is in order to avoid everyone making a new thread for each topic of the patch.

This thread will stay as it devolved into bug solving and moved towards the corresponding section.

While my opinion would be that planes should be balanced in a first place in terms of speed\arrivial, rather then having old Quad, which just makes your end game abilities useless with almost zero efford.

Air based abilities are just to fast in a first place.

There's zero effort on saving munitions and pressing a button. It should be your job to clear for any anti air defenses before calling planes, in the same way we don't complain about someone spamming mines and someone deciding not to bring a minesweeper with it or throwing an artillery barrage in the zone.

This is my opinion taking into account the 0 chance we have in a rework in how planes operates in this game.

I don't think there's a consistency issue if the weapon profile is different enough to other similar units which is the case.

If you make it as fast as other projectiles you would need to nerf it to the level of the other weapons as well, which most people on this thread don't want.

But now it performs normal, thats the point. Befor it was like two Centaur, but now it is like a better Vet2 Ostwind.

Edit: And it still insta-kills planes with some luck xD

Every AA insta kills because there is no such thing as HP for planes. Either it's a miss or a kill.

People complain about the M5 AA having to be reliable, because it's the only non doctrinal option they have. No MG upgrades on tanks nor other soft units to counter it.

INTRO: skip if u want

Since this could be, for all that it matters, one of the last big balance patches, i thought i might as well put out this discussion which has been in the back of my head for a long time.

First of all, let me ask: Are we happy with the current status quo?

For sure, it's better than in certain past periods of time but i think it's far from ideal. Uber MGs or turbo mortars are really annoying to play against and it's understandable. I would guess that fighting a blob/spam of main line infantry feels a bit more interactive than fighting a wall of MGs and auto heat seakers mortars. But those days are long way gone.

Right now mortars are a bit underwhelming (good mostly only when using barrage, which is fine) and not used frequently. For the smaller modes, more often than not it feels like a luxury to buy one due to how you are sacrificing getting a real unit most of the time. While separating the smoke from the "HE" barrage is fine, i think everyone agrees that the smoke is kinda slow in terms of launching and arriving (not sure if this can be improved).
Mgs on the other hand are all useful (don't mention maxim) but end up losing effectiveness the longer the game goes. Either due to heavy artillery, vehicles, weapon upgrades, proliferation of light cover and unit vet.

The current preview patch is trying to improve in both fronts (Mg n mortar changes) but i don't think it's deep enough to provide a real impact. At least for the long run of this units.

Ideas
I propose improvements to be made in regards to vet for both units, cheaper mortars (cost/reinforce) and nerfing light cover suppression modifier.

Light cover:
Unless i missed a change, these are the modifiers for suppression against cover.

0.1 green, 0.5 yellow, 1 nothing, 1.5 red.

The heavy/green cover is most of the time good enough to stall an MG for some time and due to the nature of it (scarce or player made) it generally relies on player input in order to use it.
On the other hand, light/yellow cover values are not enough for fighting back an MG. While we make conscious decisions of using them in the early game (fences and bushes), as the game drags on, every kind of shell and explosions produces craters which acts as light cover. This diminishes the performance of all MGs as it takes double the time to suppress a squad which can now assault frontally. It's not like we as players decide to specifically use them or that they might say slow down infantry to account for the benefits of it.

With that said i propose to nerf the suppression modifier to 0.75/0.8 (light still provides the usual 0.5 acc modifier).

This should make mid to late game MGs less bad at their job, specially when fighting multiple units with vet and improved dmg.

Veterancy MG:
NOTE: values taken from vet guide.

This is what a normal infantry squad vet more or less looks like:

Vet1: ability or in some cases small performance boost (
Vet2: 20%/40% acc 20%/25% weapon cd
Vet3: -20%/-29% RA

With vet 2 and 3 values been interchangeable.

This is what MGs looks like (i know WFA/UKF is slightly different):

Vet2: +20% suppression. +30% weapon rotation speed.
Vet3: +30% acc. +20% rate of fire. +10% weapon rotation speed.

Why not add -20% RA at vet2/vet3? Yes, we need to still test the change in formations in the current preview, but let me remind everyone that vanilla support crews already have 1.25 size/RA.

Cost Mortars:

With all the changes which favours MGs (light cover + vet) i think the natural decisions is to take a look at the main counter.

-Reduce the purchase cost of small mortars by 20mp.

The proposed changes are only meant to affect the basic mortars. This means the GrW34 (OH), 82mm (SU) and the M1 (USF). This leaves out the Mortar HT, 120mm, ISG/Pack Howie and mortar emplacement.

Vet + Reinforce cost
This is what vet looks like now.

Vet1: -25% recharge time of the "Flare" ability.
Vet2: -40% recharge time of the all barrages.
Vet3: +20% barrage accuracy.

The difference between a vet 0 and a vet 3 mortar is minimal. The only indirect fire units which still have "proper" vet are, in order of power, the Pack Howie (get's white phosphorous + Heat) > ISG (RA + vet5 power improvement which is kinda late) > mortar emplacement (vet 3 HP increase).

I suggest that ALL mortars should get:

Vet2: -23% RA
Vet3: -20% reinforce cost (IIRC old Ro.Eng vet).

ISG should get the reinforce cost and reshuffle of some of the vet values.
Pack Howie only getting the RA for starters.
Not sure about mortar emplacement.

The values are defensive oriented and not interesting on purpose. It just makes less punishing to use them.

TL;DR:
-Light cover suppression modifier from 0.5 to 0.75/0.80
-MGs vet2 or vet 3 with -20% RA Reminder support weapon crew still have 1.25 size/RA
-Small basic mortars, -20mp cost
-Mortars vet now gain -23% RA and -20% reinforce cost.