AngryJoe was not delighted to hear about this latests DLC trickery from SEGA.
AngryJoe Total War: Warhammer Pre-Order & DLC Angry Rant!:
Currently 508.036 views on youtube after only one week.
Well done SEGA, keep pissing off your RTS consumers and eSport from CA/Relic will be dead before it even got started. Go back and rethink your marketing goals because SEGA is not EA that can actually afford to piss off consumers.
FYI, AngryJoe was planning to become a big fan of this new SEGA game and gave positive previews of it in the past. Check out the past previews on his youtube channel.
AngryJoe & OtherJoe visit with the Lead Programmer of Total War: Warhammer:
AngryJoe Interviews Creative Assembly Battle Designer Simon Mann regarding the upcoming Total War: Warhammer!:
Then the SEGA DLC overlords just walk in 6 months in advance and mess up the positive previews and hype about the game. DAFUQ.
As said, if the DLC overlords get away with this again, its only going to get worse with DoW3 and more future RTS games from SEGA. Personally, I was planning to preorder but not like this.
Some defenders of the current SEGA DLC market strategy are not seeing the 5+ years big picture that are at risk here. This DLC mess along with new SEGA games coming in 2016 (CA/Relic) could very well decide the future for RTS eSports and how popular the RTS/RTS hybrid genre will become on PC/Xbox/mobile platforms.
Currently, some big corporations such as Microsoft (CA making Halo Wars 2, Microsoft biggest game IP) are looking at SEGA RTS studios to lead the way for the next 5+ years on Windows 10 supported devices.
If SEGA are not very careful with this, they gonna screw it up. Then these big corporations will just say, screw it we're done with SEGA and instead put all money and marketing teams behind MOBAs/MMOs/FPS. SEGA eSport RIP.
"The bottom line is, Halo Wars 2 will potentially be playable on all Windows 10 supported devices, making the market for this title much bigger than the original game and in turn, widening the chances of commercial success for the game. This will be great for Microsoft, but it will be a momentus achievement for the RTS genre, no longer confined to the PC or to the console"
So far it has been confirmed, that CA has up to half its studio working on Halo Wars 2, so that would be up to 200 CA employees which are almost 3 times as many than COH2.
Halo Wars 2 - 10 Facts We Know So Far!:
First of all, with war spoils Relic has already, in theory, made all commanders free-to-play. Except for implementing these two systems, there are not a big difference between in-game currency and war spoils as they are both intended to reward in-game activity.
Personal, I would argue it would be more rewarding for Relic long term to start thinking about implementing cross-platform in-game currency such as Star Wars Battlefront that I talked about in my first post. A system that potentially can be used for all future Relic games and financially connect all gamers into one universe.
But if Relic doesn't fix war spoils or change to in-game currency, the easiest short term solution to fix this mess would do the same as Luvnest also suggested.
Hope someone at Relic would give it a look for future projects
Thanks for sharing Marcus.
Best idea I have seen so far to fix the broken war spoils system. The only thing that prevent war spoils used as a form of currency is the current lack of in-game trading/marketplace.
But we already have a lot of skins for ground armor so IMO if something like this was to work it would be for decorated commanders + call-ins infantry/airplanes that could also be used as personal avatars in game/out game.
Decorated “recon planes” could also be tied with these rare commanders, that fly over the map at the start/end of each match to help “market” these commanders. This ofc would require a new airplay observer mode.
Secondly, from my point of view during THQ bankruptcy, Relic came close to permanent death. This is relevant, as to why the COH2 game code was launched prematurely.
To save the studio they were forced to postpone DoW3 + COH: Online (used to gather ideas for DoW3) and then instead rush a bad game code for COH2 which resulted in poor optimization and bugs. Then add DLC trickery on top of this and COH2 was destined to get a rather poor launch.
The money grabbers aren´t the people at Relic, it´s SEGA. It's pretty obvious they give both Relic and Creative Assembly a hard time pressuring them to make money fast with DLC Trickery. Just look at the 6 months preorder trickery they are doing with Total War: Warhammer. SEGA make EA look like Saints. If they get away with this, DLC Trickery is only going to get worse with DoW3.
Total War: Warhammer - Has Sega gone too far? (Preorder DLC Group Discussion):
Hopefully with CA working with Microsoft on Halo Wars2 and SEGA eSport Total War: Arena (using the WoT FTP model), that will help to change SEGA's DLC policy.
Also for the love of gaming, SEGA should stop forcing employees to wear that silly Sonic blue hat. Personal, watching this video below I just want to kill the Sonic mascot and replace it with Warhammer mascot which has the potential to become SEGAs biggest IP. Stop being nostalgic, the Sonic franchise is dead now long live the Warhammer era of doom.
Will Relic/SEGA fix game code for COH2 to optimize the game?
Yeah, pretty much this. It's just bad business and with the SEGA overlords running their market strategy to make more money.
The best hope for Relic IMO, try doing the same as the CA team that are working on Halo Wars 2 (windows 10 only for Xbox One/PC).
Create a new COH2 game code that can use on both Xbox One and PC running windows 10. With keyboard and mouse support coming to Xbox One, there should be fewer obstacles drawing console players into SEGA RTS games.
Now since Relic don’t have an AAA console team like CA, it might be a good idea to share the COH IP with them so they can help tweak a new game code for the Xbox One while Relic focuses on PC. Sharing the COH IP like Warhammer IP could benefit both SEGA studios.
The Halo Wars 2 team could learn a lot from COH2 and Relic could also draw more players from the Xbox to support COH2 eSport with a new game code. That's a win-win deal for both studios if you ask me.
With Windows 10 there is also the option to mobile stream from Xbox/PC to tablets and laptops running windows 10.
CA is not building an RTS Xbox/PC windows 10 team just for Halo Wars but for future windows 10 SEGA IPs to come. Using windows 10 as the primary platform on both PC and Xbox One, Microsoft is making a market strategy to use that as the backdoor to get into mobile gaming to help rival Ipad/Android tablets.
A lot of gamers are playing games on laptops/tablets which they also use as their mobile "work PC". Increasingly fewer players prefer a high-end desktop PC but would rather be mobile with a laptop or tablet.
Microsoft knows this and CA is just one studio of many to come they will use to market Xbox one/tablets running windows 10.
With the option to mobile stream from the Xbox One to other platforms running windows 10, the Microsoft "tablets" suddenly become a seriously alternative to android/Ipad users that want a mobile work PC + casual gaming.
Well, I am not against those changes tbh, but you have to agree it´s very risky and their current dlc-system seems to work. So why take that risk instead of making money with the current system?
IMHO, as a former MMO player I don't think RTS/RTS hybrids have any big future without the MMO experience. Just look at how popular "unpolished 4vs4" are for casual players within COH2 so the potential is there for larger team based games. An MMO style "conquest map/war effort" is a good idea that some have mentioned Relic might be working on. But how Relic can manage to implement the COH/DoW franchise into MMO we can only speculate for now.
If Relic aspires to become more than just a niche genre within online PC gaming, then they have to take some pretty big risks. When we look at what Relic's sister studio Creative Assembly are doing that might give us a hint to what Relic can do.
Creative Assembly are already taking a risk with the Total War franchise;
1) Total War: Warhammer, first Total War sci-fi game and using the same IP Relic used for DoW. So far looks very promising and there is a lot of hype around it that could be used by Relic to give DoW3 a good launch.
2) Total War: Arena (free-to-play MMO RTS). A 10 vs 10 Arena on several big maps where each player can control only three battalions + 1 "hero commander". Using a similar type of DLC policy as "World of Tanks" free-to-play + in-game currency.
In Arena you can invest into a premium account (to increase grind, not P2W), in-game currencies and a research tech tree like WoT.
They also combine elements from Relic games (such as commander tree and leveling for each commander ability). Cover/terrain and true sight also play a big role in Arena which vary depending on the unit class and/or hero abilities.
Morale damage/health statistics for each battalion to resemblance suppression statistic we have in COH.
To get into the console and mobile MMO RTS market they need to scale-down the controls, so with only three battalions (Arena) this is a step in the right direction. Try imagine playing starcraft2 on a mobile touch screen, lol.
So last year they openly started experimenting with mobile Warfare on tablets/iPad. The next MMO step will likely be Arena type games for Console and/or high-end tablets.
If interested, play the Arena beta and see for yourself. I'm currently still playing the beta and the game IMHO are more polished for competitive multiplayer than COH2. http://www.totalwar.com/arena
Should TW: Arena become a success I'm sure there will be an MMO spin-off from TW: Warhammer. But yeah, it might be too late for any big CoH2 changes but it's not for DoW3 and hopefully one day, CoH3.
Eve O was never Free2Play as you bought the PLEX from someone who actually had to spend real money for it!
Thx for your feedback. Yes, I know it's not a true free-to-play, it's more like a hybrid. I doubt a true FTP version will ever work for EVE-online, but EvE online mercenaries with DUST 514 is true FTP iirc. Perhaps this quote can explain it better:
Is the game already free to play?
This is anther important question to consider. The current model of using PLEX to pay for an account subscription may seem free to some. PLEX strikes the perfect balance between causal and hardcore allowing those with time or concentration to make in-game currency to pay their subscription dues. While others that want a boost in assets in-game can choose to purchase those through PLEX. Eve Online can be free to play depending on your valuation of time.
While I don't expect Eve to be F2P any time soon or even ever. The model of F2P will probably keep being considered as more and more F2P titles dominate player numbers.
About my MMO experience with in-game currency & DLC
I was both a top player and later a casual player in one of the most complex MMO game (EVE Online) with in-game currency for almost 10 years from 2003 beta to 2013. I believe I'm qualified enough to know how important it is to fix this mess with DLC and War spoils to improve COH2s longevity.
That is if Relic truly aspire to polish this franchise for competitive multiplayer and the potential of eSport such as its sister studio (CA/Relic owned by SEGA) with the free-to-play Total War: Arena.
ESL; Total War: ARENA Closed Alpha Live Event
I love the COH2 franchise with its “Band of Brothers/The Pacific” HBO TV-series appeal. I also love to play as a semi-casual gamer and watch competitive gamers play. No matter what happens, I'll continue to support it as will others I'm sure. But both COH and DoW franchise has so much more potential, even more so than EvE Online (which is still a niche genre within MMOs) and I'm not saying that lightly.
But with the current DLC policy for COH2 there is just no chance that this game will ever become eSport. Either fix it or forget about it.
Micro-Transactions & competitive multiplayer
The current DLC/Micro-Transactions with its premium commanders and factions is fine for the non-competitive single player, custom games and Co-ops/Theater of War contents. But it's definitely not fine for competitive multiplayer that need an even playing field to thrive. Either make more classic paid expansions + commanders that everyone has to pay-to-play on the same server or make a separate multiplayer only free-to-play version with in-game currency used to pay for premium content. SEGA can't have both.
As example with FTP or paid expansions;
1) Relic/SEGA could easily afford to make at least one free-to-play eastern front faction + all commanders and then make the rest of the western front factions/commanders all premium content paid with in-game currency.
OR
2) With classic paid expansions (no in-game currency) make one eastern front package + western front package and make all commanders within that package free for all to create an even playing field (and all future updates). DLC should then be limited to customization such as skins/faceplates or making separate ladder accounts such as COH1.
In EVE Online what the devs did to make their multiplayer game free-to-play was that they allow the in-game currency to pay for the monthly subscription. That is what they call "plex", paid with in-game currency. The DLC parts are mostly limited to non-competitive-role playing within EvE online and customization. Not using DLC trickery to mess with competitive multiplayer is very important for MMO players. Within EvE online the majority of the MMO players was in protest when the devs tried to get DLC into competitive multiplayer.
SEGA DLC trickery will fail
DLC trickery and a failed grinding system are not gonna draw more players to COH2 as it potential could if this mess was actual fixed..
Hopefully, Relic will start to put more work into polishing all in-game content and maybe make a true game grinding system like it's sister studio with Total War: Arena.
War spoils are just "trolling" new players with a luck based system. I'm sure this was not intentional, but War spoils is a bad attempt to reward players for in-game activity and even the playing field point for those that don't want to pay for premium/DLC content.
Grinding war spoils (similar to in-game currency) should, in theory, give players a reason to keep playing for premium content rather than giving up and walking away.
But currently it doesn't work that way at all.
Go to 30:49 and listen to what AngryJoe as a COH reviewer had to say about this DLC trickery. Currently, AngryJoe COH review has 264.549 youtube viewers. So this is the type of bad reputation that COH are getting from new players because SEGA/Relic don't fix this mess. AngryJoe review was fair and balanced and he also gave fair credits as well to Relic.
That new players don't easily understand what War spoils is pretty much sum up why Relic should replace this failed system with a true in-game currency system (one or two in-game currency) that are transparent and more flexible. The Ingame currency could also more easily be used to reward tournament players etc. which some eSport games are already doing.
In-game currency can be saved to pay for future content which give another motivation to keep playing. That can't be done with War spoils either.
A true in-game currency system was also suggested years ago by well known Twitch streamers such as Cataclaw to pay for premium content.
To make the in-game currency work it's important to understand that time is money. Either the player grind by "investing time into the game" or "save in-game time" by investing RL money for extra convenience, customization or varied player experience.
Grinding may be tedious but it even the playing field so a competitive multiplayer game with premium content don't become pay-to-win but rather "free-to-play by grinding".
Cross-Platform Grinding within one universe Star Wars Battlefront: INTRODUCING BASE COMMAND
Base Command has a strong connection to Star Wars Battlefront. Survive the Sieges and you’ll earn in-game credits, which in turn can be used to unlock Star Cards, weapons, and more in Star Wars Battlefront. Reversely, Star Cards earned in Star Wars Battlefront will automatically be available in Base Command.
“There’s this great symbiosis between the two experiences,” Rydling notes. “If you progress in Star Wars Battlefront it will help you in Base Command, and vice versa. And it doesn´t matter if you use earned credits for your Star Cards in the Companion or directly through Star Wars Battlefront, they’ll automatically and immediately be available in both experiences.”
Now please take a look on the future potential of the cross-platform grinding system within one universe. Several developers are already working to implement this new system, such as StarWars Battlefront with "Base Command" and EvE online (PC) with Dust 514 (EvE online mercenaries on console)/Project legion (PC). That something to strongly consider for a cross-platform franchise with Relic's future multiplayer games.
If you look at how popular casual RTS are on mobile phones/tablets, this has the potential to attract millions of casual players to the cross-platform franchise. True, Relic can't make RTS competitive on cross-platform but what Relic can do is inter-connecting the financial parts and in-game currency of the multiplayer franchise into one universe, one war.
As one example, let's say a DoW3 MMO-spinoff (free to play version) are released as the cross-platform franchise as one universe, one global war type of MMORTS game. So you create a simple MMORTS game a bit similar to "Game of War" or turn based game on tablets as Relic "on the go". Allow players to grind in-game currency on their tablets and use it on all platforms within that franchise.
Another idea is to let mobile RTS players or console players "hire DoW mercs" from competitive multiplayer on PC, to attack their MMO enemies on tablets/console. The competitive multiplayer on PC can then "grind in game currency" by working as mercs for MMO players from another platform. So that would instantly attract many viewers from both platforms to watch each other game as one universe, one war. Either on twitch or VODs.
MMORTS Getting Very Popular
For the naysayers that say MMORTS have no future. Dumbed down MMORTS are getting very popular on mobile phones/tablets for the casual RTS gamer. With the popularity of MOBA/MMO games, Starcraft is abandoning RTS to focus on the MOBA/FPS market with Hearthstone and Heroes of the storm and team based FPS with Overwatch. With Blizzard leaving RTS, CA + Relic (both SEGA owned), could potentially become the leading RTS/MMORTS studios left in the PC market (and console as well).
Current popular on-the-go MMORTS games are Game of War as the big money maker and Clash of Clans (more popular but makes less money).
Game of War - 2015 Super Bowl Commercial "Who I Am" ft. Kate Upt currently 10+ million youtube views
Clash of Clans: Revenge (Official Super Bowl TV Commercial) currently 70+ million youtube views
So to all the nay-sayers out there that are saying RTS are dying. No way. Classic C&C RTS on PCs might be dead, but strategy games are still evolving. Thx to the Blizzard's popular command & conquer clones/spin-off, innovative RTS developers has been living in the shadow for more than a decade. Partly due to the popularity of the Starcraft eSport hype in South Korea (which is dying now). Mobile casual RTS games are more popular than ever and casual gamers are the fastest growing community in the gaming industry.
Console RTS = Casual gamer, PC RTS = less casual than the console, Mobile RTS on-the-go = has the potential to attract all gamers if using the cross-platform grinding system.
So yes, interesting times ahead but only if Relic/CA use this RTS "power vacuum" opportunity to get ahead. Stop with nay-saying that COH or The Warhammer franchise can never become eSport.
COH2 MMORTS as a "Band of Brothers/The Pacific" TV Series similar narrative game story have huge market potential on console+mobile for the casual RTS gamer which currently with "Game of War" are a big money maker.
Not to mention Total War: Warhammer (Relic's initial IP Warhammer 40,000 IP that was used to make DoW) that currently have over 4 million views.
Bottom line, SEGA's DLC policy need a serious overhaul to say at least. Hopefully free-to-play Total War: Arena can help to change a few things, but Relic need to do their part also to help fix this mess..
But also a big "thank you" for all the other great things Relic have done to improve the COH franchise that I did not mention but deserve credit for.
Not a fan of Glenn Beck but one of the few corporate journalists that was brave enough to expose the private banking mafia in corporate mainstream media.
There is a mountain of evidence now in freelance journalism (and half truths/controlled opposition as well) and more to come for sure when the Petrodollar system collapses. Not going to bother discussing this, live in self denial if you want. At least I am mentally prepared, good luck to those that are not.
Goldenpath/Kwisatz Haderach/Kwisatch Haderach/His Royal Highness
Personal, I believe community transparency in the long run foster good sportsmanship. When it comes to sportsmanship I'm not on anybody's side.
I seriously hope this is not Sage6 (my Sturmtiger clan m8), if so I would be serious disappointed.
Played two games in a row against him, won first game then lost second one. Actual after being abused two games by this bad manner, I think Paula is a saint in comparison..
From an aspiring top 50 1vs1 "tournament player" it's expected that you all show some decent "E-sportsmanship" to both new and old players (and potential COH2 fans). If every tournament player did like this, COH2 would never become eSport potential. As a small community that aspire to become eSport we must all do our parts to attract new players to this great game we love. Manner up and show some more respect for the COH2 community, thank you.
For the record I dont claim I'm a top player, I just love playing this game and watching good games from top tournament players (1vs1/2vs2). But trolling COH2 fans like this is NOT funny and counter productive. To this date I have donated more than 150 $ to the twitch streamers/casting/tournaments community and I'll keep supporting that because that is what I love from COH2.
FYI, this is my second "training account" learning to play brits 1vs1/2vs2 before playing brits on my main account.
Denmark
SturmTigerCobra
DonnieChan
Inane EliteVideoGameMasturbater
SturmTigerCobra
Relic Entertainment
