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Jump back to quoted post13 Dec 2013, 16:48 PMGreeb

Ok, then new PPSH is worse than LMG and G43, right?

Well, is cheaper and probably appear faster or at least at the same time.
It seems fair to me, I don't understand the fuss about the change.

Jump back to quoted post13 Dec 2013, 15:41 PMNullist

Uhm no.

It was infact always overpowered before.

Jump back to quoted post13 Dec 2013, 14:59 PMspam.r33k

one should consider that this wasnt actually a balance change in terms of "yeah that thing is quite balanced, but lets fool around with it a little bit", but a bugfix. the stats on the PPSHs were the wrong ones and lead to them overperforming (mini-lmgs)in certain scenarios. so i think that change (even if one wasnt aware of them having the wrong stats) was a move towards improved balance.
Lets call them P(iss)P(oor)SH(it)s from now on

Jump back to quoted post12 Dec 2013, 12:20 PMNullist

Ok, I see, thanks for clarification. Well, if you want to talk about specifically PPSHs then it would have helped if you had said so specifically earlier. When you say "Cons feel weak" its not at all the same thing as saying "Cons with PPSH feel weak". Know whatI mean? It helps to be as specific as possible.

If you read this thread, you might have missed the posts that Wooof made which show the old and new stats, and also his observation that PPSH where basically incorrectly still operating with Single Player stats, rather than Multi Player ones.

I attempted to elaborate on his post with some calculations on the new PPSH here:
http://www.coh2.org/topic/11822/patch-notes-discussion-dec.-10th/post/104934

Basically PPSHs where pretty grossly overperforming before, so its probably quite a shock for someone who was used to taking advantage of that, compared to what they are now when they have the proper Multiplayer stats.

As I tried to demonstrate in my calculations, what you can expect from the new PPSHs is roughly the following:
-A Moving PPSH Con will do roughly the same DPS as a Stationary Vanilla Con
-A Moving PPSH Con will do roughly twice the DPS of a Moving Vanilla Con.
-A Stationary PPSH squad will do roughly 60%ish more DPS than a Stationary Vanilla Con.

So as I stated earlier, this incentives PPSH Cons as a more mobile DPS platform than Vanilla Cons, since they are as good compared to a stationary one, and twice as good as a moving one. When stationary, they have 60% more DPS, which is substantial, but its really the PPSH double DPS when moving that stands out, over moving Vanilla Cons.

For 10 Muni, I think thats pretty good. Double DPS when moving compared to Vanilla moving, the same moving DPS when compared to a stationary Vanilla, and 60% more when stationary.

Hope that helps you adapt to the change!

(Assuming I got the proportions right. Im not a math genius by a long shot, just trying my best to provide some info.l