I would not be adverse to a slight increase in ZiS RoF.
I wtill think Barrage is a problem, but I think the importance of MP based effective AT is more important than that, regarding to this.
Don't increase the Zis RoF when barrage still exisits. If a barrage shot hits a tank, it's hitting a tank "as normal dmg". I feel barrage at 60(?) muni is a fine cost.
Frankly, Id remove it from ZiS. SU76 carries it for free. Its a double redundancy to have it on ZiS as well, especially considering Ost has no equivalent on anything.
ZiS is T2, Su76 is T4. Yes, both are similar but, this can be taken as a "core tactic" for the soviets.
Spam cheap, crappy inf (conscripts, penal squads)for sight and have ZiS' & su76's Artillerly from a distance.
The fact that it's redundant is a BENEFIT not a negative. ZiS being versitile at anti-inft (for muni) and anti-tank makes it great. Then add wheels and fuel and you have the su76. Add more and you have su-85.
Ost doesn't have an equivalent because they are more moblie and have more dmg/ are tank-based/vehicle-based playstyle. However, you can make pgrens get Schreks (similar to anti-inf & anti-tank capabilities for muni), and have earlier & cheaper access to better 'overall' vehicles (flame-halftrack & scout car [especially with upgrade]) |
Just get a Panzer IV. How hard can it be to play Germans right now? I've got a ~10 win streak with them since last patch, half of which games I played drunk.
Get a Panzer and neither of them is OP anymore
DING DING DING! we have some winners!
Why did we need a new topic for a tank who loses half-life & 100% engine damage to a panzerfaust, two shotted by a p4, two shotted by an ostwind, 2 shotted by a stug, 2 shotted by pgrens-shrecks and 2 (4 cause it dodges) shotted by a pak? (TO NAME A FEW)
Why did we need a new topic for a 4CP, unrealiable (for the time you need the tank vs. CP exp), SUPER NICHE, tank that costs 135 fuel?
IMO, T70 is the only 'sure thing' russians have against early mg42s & early pgrens. |
I feel ALL the call-in Tanks (minus KV-8 or P4 Command tank) are more or less designed for 2v2+.
In 1v1, the game SHOULD be over by the time either player (even if Map domination happens) has enough resources to purchase the call-in tank. IF they do arrive, it's because 1 player has not "finished the game" or "made huge mistakes".
Therefore, I do not think 'waiting for an IS-2 [or Tiger] in a 1v1' is a smart/viable option. |
The best counter to KV8/Shocktroop doctrines are to force him to get guards vs T2 vehicles.
Early to midgame the best counter is G43 (moving towards the sniper for a countersnipe), mortar halftrack incendiary artillery, MG bunkers (soviet T1 are weak against bunkers), rifle grenade, camo ambush, 2-3 SCs and/or flameht.
Learning to counter suppported snipers does require some training but it's not OP. Need more training myself but once you know how to counter it you wont fear snipers anymore.
+1, This is a great tactic. The more i play Soviets, the more i actually dislike guards (even though i know they are probably the best unit soviets have). The problem with Shocktroops are they are anti-inf, ONLY; while guards are anti-inf AND anti-light vechicles (and small dmg to tanks).
G43s to count snipe sniper are awesome as soviets' current meta game doesn't include suppression (rarely do you see maxiums or M3+Quad cannon [yes, that suppresses]), so you can run in your grens with little to no risk; as well as G43s do big dmg to conscripts(especially retreating). In addtion, the more i play soviets, the more i realize how important snipers are. |
Currently Russians are rewarded for mid-late game camping, and neither germans nor russians are rewarded enough for flanking, be it early mg-flanking, or late game flanking.
+1 as well. This is the best/current "Overall status of the game". I feel flamethrower flanks are the ONLY flank that is worthwhile (see why Russians still use M3+Flamer).
I think the stug is a good, quick and nice to use when having manpower problems/pop cap issues and need to flood the board more. It does VERY good dmg/accuracy to inf. and i feel it's a 'better version of the su-76'.
however, i do agree 95fuel vs 115 fuel (p4 or ostwind)? i'd rather take p4 or ostwind and wait 1-2 more minutes to get a better 'overall' tank. (Off topic, Ostwinds do some considerable dmg to T-34s, even MORE dmg at vet 2 &3) |
grens get an upgrade. would actually be cool if the conscripts could pop an equally big LMG (temporary) for munis after oorahing.
i have lost with a engi + conscript vs a single gren, so yes, about 0 damage.
I like this idea...I know this would change two doctrines COMPLETELY but, it would be cool if :
-LMG = unlocks after Battlephase 1 upgrade (lower muni cost to ~20-45).
-PPSH-Conscript upgrade= Global (not doctrine)/ unlocks after T1 or T2 building built for ~30-60 Muni.
This will make conscripts still be able to use 'Ooorah' as intended and give them an edge against MG squads/ benefit for flanking w/muni cost.
This will delay Gren LMG spam during early game and stop ~5min 'totaldominationpushback' during T1 fights.
Or, i suppose to make it an easier fix; make PPSH's avavible at 1CP (but that would make 'Hit the dirt' or something equal become 2cp, as to not have 1cp-guards,ppsh,HTD in the 1 doctrine) |
The biggest issue with the unit is killing squads on retreat which is NOT an issue with the unit but instead an issue with COH2's retreat modifiers which are incredibly weak compared to COH1. It needs to be fixed...
I have noticed this and completly agree. I feel retreating is almost a guarenteed loss of 1-2 models. Since Flame dmg is "AOE" that's why flame does so much to retreating squads.
(Also, off topic: Does Flame dmg do ANYTHING regarding to cover?!? i swear i've seen flamethrowers do almost 0 dmg to untis in buildings or in green cover. As vCOH, it was a deterrance/Counter to Building play; and did extra dmg to units in green cover.)
T-70s have probably the best anti-infantry in the game for cost.
I disagree, overall. Overall, the German Scout Car has the best anti-infantry in the game for cost. For Soviets, Probably the T-70 then but, the M3 (+quad) comes as a close contender based on suppresion being added into the mix.
I don't see how comparing a 4CP doctrine unit vs BASE UNITS is even a topic. KV8 isn't OP because it is not a reliable unit to get "at the time you need it". That's its 'Balance'. It's a heavy tank for the soviets, they only have 4 (3 are doctrine units). |
I have run into this problem as well and realized that going West/left hand side, is your ONLY option to save your economy.
However, now your enemy is forcing you over there.
I've tried using 120mm mortars but that 1CP takes too long to get and you usually lose by then. I do have a replay against IronRoman where he built BUNKERS, and i try to build 2 120mm mortars. I got frustrated by the fact that i lost based on me NOT going T1 and i felt i needed to 'watch the middle' and 'not let bunkers be built', since he wasn't getting mg42 squads. I guess PENAL SQUADS(GASP!) would have been a good bet against BUNKERS for satchel charges.
I do feel T1 is the way to push them off but, you NEED to be fast on your T2 to stop the Ostwind and/or p4; as he'll have 1 (most likely 2) fuel guaranteed. So, getting the flamethrower+m3 & a Sniper as quick as you can, with 3x conscripts trying to slow him down with molotov is, IMO, your best bet.
I have tried to 'Ignore the middle' but that loses quickly because as soon as you retreat a squad, they run right in front of 2 MG42s stare-ing at your cut-off and mow down your <4manretreating squad.
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great game! i thought you lost three times. Both teams snipers were awesome.
i wish i would have seen the german make x2 P4s instead of 1x tiger. This replay showed me to suicide Ram t-34s when i know they are going to die. Great job holding onto your gas and getting 3 t-34s at once |
Here is one of my last three games, this keeps happening to me. Sure, i lost some conscripts; sure my T-34s could have been micro'ed better; sure, i could have T-34"ram-ed" at times, but with nerf to penetration, it's not a sure-thing; sure i could have done _____. I felt i controlled/cut-offed the map well. I felt my at position was clear on my screen and i felt i won the game at the half-way mark (cause i did). I killed just as many, if not more FULL Squads than him.
I felt that i out-played my opponent 2:1 and i still lose because T3 soviets cannot compete vs P4 & pgrens.
Also this game, i wish i had keyboard/actions fraps onto it. My At guns refused to fire and needed baby-sitting control, then if i make a miss-click, they unpack and die. Maybe you can count this loss/at stupidity (and my other 2 losses) as 'FERMA-BAD-LUCK-MVGAME'
Also, See how blitzkrieg is amazing.
Lastly, this replay is my evidence that there is no reason *NOT* to go T4 Right away and get SU-85.
Hope you enjoy this hour-long-depressing-game via the soviets point of view.
Tips are welcomed if you saw any glaring mistakes, THANKS! MVGame
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